[habibur]

The same happened to Modi, the PM of India, if my memory serves me right. He was banned from entering USA for his deeds, until he turned out to be the head of India.

Apparently your only way out is to be the head of your state, if you have done something evil.

[maccard]

> Your only way out is to be the head of your state.

Or a diplomat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn

[cmeacham98]

> On 20 October 2022 she pleaded guilty to causing the death of Harry Dunn by careless driving. Sentencing will take place at a later date.

Am I missing something?

[that_guy_iain]

She hasn't returned to the UK for the trial. It'll be a question of if she gets extradited or not. The US state department has said extraditing her would be highly inappropriate and an abuse.

Realistically, the US aren't sending her back. And considering she works/worked for the CIA, it's not exactly surprising.

[cmeacham98]

If I'm reading the Wikipedia article correctly, she got approval from the judge in the UK to attend the trial virtually. She has been requested to attend the sentencing in person, but that hasn't happened yet.

[that_guy_iain]

The UK has requested that she be extradited. They refused. The first time ever the US has refused a UK extradition.

She has stated that she will not return on her own free will to face a prison sentence for this accident.

She had diplomatic immunity so clearly the US aren't going to send her back. And if you were her you wouldn't go back to go to prison. This is basically a show trial.

[stefan_]

Yes, the fact that shes being harbored by the US.

[whimsicalism]

Many cases like this with US spies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Allen_Davis_incident

[conviencefee999]

We award nobel peace prizes to warlords and people who commit genocide along with other acts against humanity. What an age we live in when awards are not given post humorously and cannot be revoked.

[mc32]

I don't believe in post-hoc awards removal. If you awarded something, you do it with no possibility of taking it back even if the recipient turns out to be the worst bastard ever later on.

I do believe big and serious awards should be done posthumously. I don't believe in for example, naming Airports or large buildings after someone who is/was still a live at dedication time.

However, I will acquiesce to asterisks --not removals.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

This is the way of the world. At certain point, there are those who are above the law. Even if we argue that international law is basically 'might is right', it is fascinating, because it effectively brings us as back as a species to medieval kingdoms rules with all the issues that those bring.

And yes, I know there are good and valid reason for leaders to be given some level of immunity to allow them to not be, well, targeted and locked up by current regime on trumped charges, but this is not the situation we have in place here ( and those tend to be limited by the time they serve in office - MBS is likely to enjoy this immunity for life ).

I don't know if it is the real threat of impending nuclear war ( and everything that was done so far to prevent it ) that makes me so depressed about the world, but it is harder and harder for me not to feel.. disappointed with the way things are.

edit: FWIW, Biden finally recognized the reality of who is running that particular kingdom. In a way, it is an embarrassing political defeat, which I assume was purchased with something. I suppose we will find out that what that something was in coming months.

[yalogin]

More importantly one should either be an ally or be useful to the US too,

[spamizbad]

This is problematic because one of the underpinnings of western liberalism is the notion of Rule of Law: that, at the end of the day, we are all bound to the same rules.

[mgfist]

We're not all bound to the same rules and laws. For example, the president of the US can decide to kill with near immunity.

[whimsicalism]

We're all bound by the rule: "if you are president of the US, you can kill with near immunity."

[HDThoreaun]

Right, and one of those rules is "heads of state are exempt from all rules". Otherwise Obama would be getting sued for ordering drone strikes and we can't have that.

[Veen]

Relations between states and heads of states aren’t governed by laws determined by western liberalism, much as some would like that to be the case.

[Joker_vD]

They are governed by the rules determined by whoever decides what the hell exactly "the rules-based international order" is — or rather they're not, much as some like that to be the case.

[Consultant32452]

Their only moral is power.

[rajeshp1986]

Let me clarify some points at the risk of sounding like a Modi supporter. Modi had gone though investigations and was acquitted by the Supreme court of India. It was definitely failure of government mechanism and officials but not state sponsored voilence.

" The Supreme Court on Friday dismissed allegations of "larger conspiracy" levelled by Zakia Jafri, widow of Congress leader Ehsan Jafri who was killed in the 2002 Gujarat riots, against former Chief Minister Narendra Modi and over 60 senior state officials.

Inaction or failure of "some officials of one section of the State administration" cannot be the basis to infer a pre-planned criminal conspiracy by the State government, the court held.

The failure of certain officials cannot be inferred as a "State-sponsored crime (violence) against the minority community", the Supreme Court said.

"

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/2002-gujarat-riots-su... (This is a left-leaning newspaper)

The thing with MBS is there was no independent investigation done by any agency in Saudi.

[meaydinli]

How is investigation of Modi by "Supreme court of India" an independent investigation? It is the classic case of "we looked into our wrong doing and found nothing"

[ghufran_syed]

analogously, would you also agree with the following statement?

“How is the investigation of US president trump by the US congress an independent investigation…?”

[whimsicalism]

> “How is the investigation of US president trump by the US congress an independent investigation…?”

I mean - fair point, it's not.

[throwaway0asd]

Yes, the investigation is independent. What I believe you mean to suggest is that it is not impartial and lacks the adversarial natural of a US legal tribunal.

[whimsicalism]

You are using a very non-colloquial understanding of "independent" and to what end?

Are they independent if going against him means you most likely will lose your job next election cycle?

[cma]

During the first impeachment trial they agreed to not hear from any witnesses or allow new documents into evidence since his party controlled the senate.

[_jal]

This is just an argument about definitions. "Independent" means "from a different power center".

Now, it is entirely fair to argue that that the powers in question are colluding in some way. But most states that haven't been subverted into authoritarianism have multiple actors with the power and (sometimes) will to investigate other ones.

I mean, if you take that argument far enough, no human could judge any other human, because none of them are "independent".

[goodcanadian]

While I would never claim the Supreme Court of India is perfect, it is based on the British system and the judiciary is meant to be independent.

[ignoramous]

> Let me clarify some points...

Here are some more points that I've read about (not sure if true), if can you clarify them:

1. The involvement of cabinet ministers of Modi's government.

2. The non-involvement of the State Police which were under Modi's control.

3. Modi's refusal to deploy the Armed Forces (which fall under the command of the Central Government).

4. Rioters having access to State Government census records and the State Government-controlled supplies like LPG cylinders.

5. Since murdered BJP Leader Haren Pandya's confession of Modi being complicit.

And a laundry list of other things that Supreme Court of India probably looked at and dismissed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_riots#Allegations...

[barelysapient]

Are there any 'independent' agencies in Saudi? Is such a thing possible in an absolute monarchy?

[zardo]

I don't think it is an absolute monarchy, my understanding is the Saudi state is a web of fiefdoms of individual members of the royal family. The right hand doesn't always know what the left hand is doing, e.g. the 9/11 attacks.

[nashashmi]

Saudi Arabia also has a legal system in which people were actually punished for the Killing. Plus his family was given lots of money as blood money.

Modi was dismissed. They didn't look into it. He avoided All investigations when it happened and still avoids questioning to this day. No one was punished. No blood money made its way. Nothing.

Many more people died at modi's hands than MBS. There is no comparison.

[random314]

> It was definitely failure of government mechanism and officials but not state sponsored voilence.

No, it was state sponsored violence, instigated by Narendra Modi alone. Judgements by a compromised court hold no water.

Here are the details of the pogrom of Zakias condo complex

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulbarg_Society_massacre

Even worse the testimony of police officers who have now been imprisoned

https://www.hindusforhumanrights.org/en/blog/for-immediate-r...

Even worse there is direct video confession by the rapists and murderers (who were convicted later) of Modi starting the riots and supporting them with state apparatus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babu_Bajrangi

The video where Modis leadership is made explicit at 6:30

https://youtu.be/mfnTl_Fwvbo

To double down, this year Modis central government set several rapists and murderers who had been given life sentences free on Indian Independence Day and issued election tickets to the relatives of the convicted rapists and murderers.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/17/asia/india-bilkis-bano-rape-g...

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/politics-behind...

Your linking to a report on the supreme court judgement in a "left leaning" newspaper as some kind of evidence is absurd. It's a report about the judgment not an editorial.

https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/an-exoneration/ar...

It doesn't get more naked and bald faced than this

[throwaway5874]

We all know how british royals are treated even though they commited genocide in India.

Power is what others respect. everything else is just BS

[whimsicalism]

> Let me clarify some points at the risk of sounding like a Modi supporter.

Just to clarify on you not being a Modi supporter: Do you feel that Modi is doing not enough or too much to combat terrorists/internal threats in India?

My suspicion is that you are to the right of Modi but intentionally trying to obscure that by saying that you aren't a Modi supporter, which would typically imply to the left of Modi. A brief perusal of your comments seems to suggest that is the case.