[bheadmaster]

> But there's no evidence that the one is superior to the other.

I believe the fact that people cannot drive a car properly while hallucinating seems to be a bit of evidence of "superiority" of the sober mind over the intoxicated, at least in the real world.

[pmoriarty]

Why did you pick car driving as the measure of reality?

Why not pick love making, or singing, appreciating or making music, laughing, communing with spirits or gods, feeling empathy for others, or making art?

[bheadmaster]

Because when you hit someone with a car, they die. When you have bad sex, it's just bad sex. In other words, driving a car requires much better connection with reality in order to make sure you're doing it right, and doing it wrong has much harder consequences than the things you've listed.

Sure, all those things are pleasant to people, but that doesn't have anything to do with them being "real". When you watch a good movie, the scenes feel real, but they are very much not.

[euroderf]

Driving a car is just conditioning yourself thru repetition to operate one particularly dangerous mechanical device thru dynamic environments. No biggie.

[bheadmaster]

Making love is just thrusting your penis into vagina until you finish. No biggie.

Singing/making music is just making random sounds until they sound good. No biggie.

Speaking to god is just saying whatever comes out of your mind until you feel better. No biggie.

---

Everything can be made to sound silly when you oversimplify it. Such arguments don't have anything to do with activity "being real" at all.

[euroderf]

Comparing sexual relations, musicmaking, and speaking to God to... driving a car ?

Color me dubious.