[nikisweeting]

Tesla's manufacturing process engineering is unparalleled in the automotive space, but the final products are often buggy because when you reinvent manufacturing overnight and don't nail it 100% all people see are the bugs.

I personally don't like Teslas that much, I think they got a lot of things wrong, but the manufacturing process engineering really is leading the whole car industry by quite a ways.

Check out MunroLive's teardown videos on YouTube where they talk about the changes to part counts, castings, fasteners, and all the internal details that consumers don't notice.

[bamboozled]

So they’re leading the industry by building “buggy” products ?

I’d prefer to buy a Toyota

[brookst]

Are you familiar with the innovation diffusion curve[0]? It is very normal for industry leaders to build buggy products, because early adopters value innovation more than perfection. That’s how the whole tech industry works.

Tesla may or may not succeed in appealing to the late majority and laggards, but if they don’t, the Toyota you buy in 15 years will still have benefitted from the industry changes Tesla is leading today.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations

[Kye]

What is Tesla doing in 2022 that every other car maker hasn't started doing? It seems like they're still building buggy products long after this excuse could work.

[_ea1k]

Well, its hard when you say things like "every other car maker". Other car makers are starting to do some of the same things, but sometimes these are things Tesla did first.

For example, both Lucid and Rivian use round cells for batteries. BMW is exploring the 4680 form factor. Most other manufacturers still do not use round cells.

Tesla is using large castings for major parts of the frame. I think Volvo is starting to do this? Its not entirely a new trend, but again, Tesla was the first in the auto industry to do it this way.

The way Tesla does the structural pack for the 4680 is unique as well at the moment.

Having said that, I think Tesla people overstate the customer significance of all of these things. The real impact is technically interesting, but isn't really making a big difference in the outcome of the vehicles.

There are other EVs that charge faster and are significantly cheaper too, now that Tesla keeps raising prices.

[brookst]

If you find yourself characterizing something as an "excuse", it's a pretty good sign that you're looking for confirmation of bias rather than new information to form an opinion about.

But sure, how about:

- Model years. Have you seen the 2022 Tesla Model 3? No, because it doesn't exist. Teslas evolve over time. Other manufacturers still have days where the next model year starts being produced and the cars are very different than the previous day.

- Greatly simplified cabin. I hate this, but I think it's the future.

- OTA software updates. Some other makers are doing small updates a bit, but nobody (let alone everybody) is doing what Tesla is here

-

[vba616]

>Teslas evolve over time. Other manufacturers still have days where the next model year starts being produced and the cars are very different than the previous day

People who like Tesla and people who hate it both seem prone to making declarations about how different it is that seem unfounded to me.

The auto industry underwent a long evolution to regimented model years, and they still make changes in between to this day. Framing a lack of model years as progress rather than regress by ~a half century seems arbitrary to me.

When cars are recalled, it isn't uncommon for the population to be defined as a range of serial numbers. The fact that recalls aren't always based on model years seems like pretty good evidence that changes are made in between, doesn't it?

[brokenmachine]

>Greatly simplified cabin

So, no tactile buttons.

>OTA software updates

So Tesla has revolutionized two things that I think should be illegal in a vehicle. Awesome.

I'll add a very cavalier and dangerous "self-driving" that can't actually drive itself to the list of Tesla counter-innovations.

[bamboozled]

I thought the exact same thing, there's really absolutely nothing special about Tesla anymore.

I appreciate the direction they pushed the industry towards, but I feel like the innovation has finished and I'd expect a lot of the problems to be ironed out.

Toyota on the other hand have produced a car which runs on hydrogen, it is in production and for sale in the USA right now. They also do hybrids and I'm sure if they wanted to, they'd do electric no problems.

[prmoustache]

That do not make the tesla better products though.

[tmn]

The object in question is the engineering process

[shadowgovt]

Actually, yes, they are.

American automotive manufacturing became hyper-conservative over time. A willingness to let (non-safety-critical (1)) bugs get to market with the tradeoff of making products you otherwise wouldn't is a market-distinguishing tradeoff.

(1) But my larger concern is that I can't say about Tesla that only non-safety-critical bugs are making it out the door, so I also won't buy one. Because unlike a buggy phone or buggy smart watch, a buggy car with safety-critical bugs can kill other people, so there's wisdom in disallowing it.

[hef19898]

Which says a lot, US cars a notorious for their overall bad quality and build standards over here.

[phpisthebest]

Which doubles the ironic nature because most of the Japanese cars sold in the US are built in the US, and many (most) of the "US Cars" that are sold in the US are built in Mexico and Canada.

Why... unions. Japanese Manufacturers have evaded the UAW problem, where Ford and GM have had to flee the nation to get out from under decades of sunk costs