[davesque]

I've always felt a bit like an alien from outer space when trying to understand the work habits of modern humans. It seems we spend enough time doing what we think we have to do to survive that it feels like the only thing we actually do. Everything else in our life feels secondary. I'm not sure this is even normal in nature. Seems like a lot of animals spend much of their time just sort of hanging out. Does it honestly take so much time to cover your bases? I think not.

It feels as though the modern 9-5 lifestyle is a lie that no one questions. I just can't get behind it as long as I feel like our society doesn't actually require that much constant effort to maintain or even to keep pointed in the right direction.

[CBarkleyU]

"The lion never says "It took me 15 minutes to hunt the antelope, if I keep at it, I might hunt 4 more down -- wait I could actually take tomorrow off!" -- The lion isnt stupid, he didn't go to business school. Au contraire, lion is much smarter than the MBA, he knows that even if he hunted down 5 antelopes today, he still can't take tomorrow off: He has to build a fridge on his day off. On the day following his day off he has to somehow work to get the electricity working, then he has to build a house to protect the fridge and at the end of the day the lion will never have the time to lie in the sun and say "Man, that tasted so good, how lucky am I?".

Only a human can be tricked into thinking like that"

Volker Pispers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IysGB9yXE_g)

[chii]

That's civilization, and it is the thing that allowed humans to survive better than lions, despite being physically weaker and less hardy.

[davesque]

Agree completely. My point was that I feel like it doesn't actually take so much effort to maintain that we have to feel strung out all the time. I imagine we could continue to survive and thrive quite effectively with far less effort directed in the right way.

We seem to continue to hustle to survive but the notion of survival is ingrown and only really has meaning within the context of humanity. The broader notion of survival, against the elements, seems like a solved problem.

[chii]

> The broader notion of survival, against the elements, seems like a solved

not really. It's easy to survive against the elements, but that's because those who perform the tasks of helping you survive against the elements (and food and necessities) are expecting you to contribute higher-order goods/services back.

> thrive quite effectively with far less effort directed in the right way.

so who's doing the directing? if it's a central authority, we know how that went.

The only real option left is market directed. Which is what we have today. There cannot be, at the current technological level, an easy life. Until the day humanity move to post-scarcity, this will remain the case.

[pdimitar]

I believe a lot of people understand this but they have no choice, especially those working for less money.

IMO the bigger problem is consumerism and the ephemeral nature of many goods (they break easily). This keeps us on the hamster wheel forever.

If it wasn't for that, my current salary can cover _everything_ in my rented flat for one year of work, maximum two. Add 5-10 more for a good flat or a house.

It seems the system doesn't want people to retire at 30. So we're kept busy and all our stuff breaks constantly.

It sucks and it gave me a serious existential dread but I see no way out. Working hard to maybe have a side gig with a passive income is the best I can do right now.

So again, I believe a lot of people understand what you're saying but what can they do?

[davesque]

Yep, agreed. Didn't mean to blame people necessarily.