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by koolba 1313 days ago
TicketMaster has exclusive contracts with the vast majority of venues and just about every large one. These contracts include kickbacks where TicketMaster will add $X of fees to each ticket it sells and pass back Y$ (Y < X) to the venue.

It's essentially the venues and artists outsourcing the job of "being the asshole" to TicketMaster as a large chunk of the money eventually flow back. They get to publicly blame TicketMaster, claim they have no involvement, and still get their slice of the "processing fees".

If you are attending any event and you can actually buy the tickets directly at the box office then go that route. You'll likely save anywhere from 25-60% off the price of the tickets. Plus you'll get actual physical tickets.

Sure this doesn't work for some crazy in demand show, but nobody goes to those anyway right?

13 comments

So much this. And just to add, any startup that even attempts this, EVEN WITH 100% ARTIST SUPPORT, cannot work out because venues have the exclusivity contracts.

And worse, you can't split a venue up to 2 different sellers. They don't have a communication protocol for which seats are sold, so you end up in a position of double-booking. Also bad.

Basically the only way for this to work is:

a) a system exists where venues publish an event and seating

b) the system does nothing but keep track of sales and seats. They don't care who sold, just tracking that it was sold. Also allow full API access so any service can reserve and claim the seat, the service is now on the hook for that seat.

c) allow venues to indicate which services can sell their tickets

This will commodotize ticketmaster, but at the same time, there will very little value add, so who would compete. It'll be a race to the bottom with barely any money. And the service you build could take a small fee at best otherwise nobody would use you. AND you'd be competing against ticketmaster with almost no money.

And don't forget, the double booking problem... Your service will have to basically integrate with ticketmaster, who will never willingly do this given that you'll commodotize them, and they will not simply sacrifice themselves just to make some sort of positive outcome, and then also be completely beholden to another company.

Its a perfect monopoly field.

Sounds like the gov needs to step in and break it up. Anyone have any idea on getting that process started? This is probably a better path than trying to disrupt Ticketmaster as another random startup.
I saw this being passed around the other day: https://actionnetwork.org/letters/tell-the-department-of-jus...
It isn't just that the venues have exclusive contracts, its also that if they break the exclusivity contract with TicketMaster, they can't use a competing service for 2 years (though I can't find proof of this, when I worked in venues 20 years ago, this was the case).

SongKick took a stab at breaking TicketMaster, as did PearlJam, and a few others. Everyone has failed so far.

This is clearly monopolistic and harmful to concert goers, and StubHub (also a Ticketmaster/LiveNation company) was fined a few years ago for selling tickets at a premium which were never made available to the public.

The whole industry is so shady, it's pathetic that this is allowed to continue.

> It isn't just that the venues have exclusive contracts, its also that if they break the exclusivity contract with TicketMaster, they can't use a competing service for 2 years (though I can't find proof of this, when I worked in venues 20 years ago, this was the case).

How is that legal under Sherman Act?

It's probably not along with many other industries that sorely need the Sherman act, but the DOJ would have to bring charges and sometimes it's not politically popular especially during periods of bad economy to do so
This isn't the first time LN/TM have been been through this process.

Ian Hogarth of SongKick describes how he first fought the anti-trust.

https://twitter.com/soundboy/status/1593549611431493632

Happy to see.
You still get hit with fees at the door in my experience. Considering most venues bigger than a bar are owned by livenation which is the same company as Ticketmaster…
Last couple times I went this year, it was a $5 fee at the box office, which was still considerably less than the $18 in fees online (for a $35 ticket). After I paid, they asked for my number and texted me a Ticketmaster link.
I’m old enough to remember when it was free to purchase at the box office
> If you are attending any event and you can actually buy the tickets directly at the box office then go that route. You'll likely save anywhere from 25-60% off the price of the tickets.

I've bought Broadway tickets at the box office to save on processing fees, and they just printed out TicketMaster tickets.

The artists can do better too, if they have the power to make TM share the upside (most don't) because TM controls much of the resale market and is also moving towards surge pricing. This is why they're pushing into virtual ticketing so hard (Ticket-less Master?)

TM also has huge vertical integration. If you want to perform a live show at almost any mid/large venue your tour is likely to be managed by Live Nation, and they are integrated down to artist representation.

Unfortunately, monopoly laws are enforced like the rules in monopoly: entirely arbitrarily
How was Live Nation able to get as big as they did prior to TicketMaster acquiring them?
> If you are attending any event and you can actually buy the tickets directly at the box office then go that route.

I used to try that - in order to avoid ticketmaster fees. For most venues, even if you buy tickets at the venue, it is a ticketmaster terminal/printer that prints the tickets out. And you still pay the ticketmaster fees.

Not even contracts, but they own the venues via Live nation who own ticketmaster, they essentially have a monopoly, at least here in the UK, all the main concert venues of scale are owned by Live Nation.

Live nation also runs most of the major music festivals too as they bought them up.

I've been buying my tickets at The Greek in Berkeley since Ticketmaster started requiring 2FA and rejecting my Google Voice number.

They charge a $5 fee for physical tickets now. It's less than their online bullshit, but it's still bullshit.

> you can actually buy the tickets directly at the box office

Last time I tried that the venue processed the sale through TicketMaster and I got a TicketMaster ticket.

the only way this will work is if the venues can potentially get more money from another source besides Ticketmaster.
Is Y <<<< X?
No body goes to those shows anymore, they are too crowded