[TranquilMarmot]

The part about remote work removing a driving force for friendships hit me pretty hard. In February of 2020, I had a dozen or so really close friends that I would see every day. We would laugh together, get food together, and work on hard problems together.

In March of 2020, we all started working remotely and I haven't seen any of them since. Even if I wanted to, almost all of them have moved to other cities, states, or countries. Most left the company we were at (including me). We have a Discord server where we all still talk and chat, but it's a cheap imitation of what we used to have.

Now, I work with a team of people who are completely scattered geographically. Maybe once every few months I will see one of them in person if they happen to be in the area. They feel like strictly co-workers- I don't think we've ever really laughed or just goofed around that much, and certainly aren't hanging out outside of work hours. I wouldn't be able to call one of them up in a time of crisis and ask for help.

I miss my friends, and the simple solution would be "go find new ones!" but, like this essay points out, that's not exactly easy and there's a "blind spot" about how hard it can be. There's also still a pandemic going on- I haven't caught COVID-19 yet and don't plan on it. Any sort of friendship that would involve physically being near other people on a regular basis is just asking for it. To me, getting sick is not worth having a friend, even though it is wrecking my mental health. I know that equation is different for other people.

[zwkrt]

> getting sick is not worth having a friend

Everyone has their own risk analysis. My analysis is that this is totally out of whack. Covid will be around longer than you’ll be alive. Make a friend it won’t kill you.

What really gets me though I know people with your level of risk aversion* who force their developing kids into lockdown. I think the cohort born ~2014-2018 are really gonna be an odd bunch.

* partial risk aversion. The risk of social isolation is not taken into account and weighed against.

[gg82]

I think people totally don't understand the risk analysis here. I think getting covid is absolutely worth getting covid for most people. The health benefits of having friends is not being taken into account at all... ie mental health, exercise, life experiences, someone to help you when you need it, etc.

[TranquilMarmot]

I acknowledge that my mental health is suffering because of COVID precautions I am taking. I still get plenty of exercise- more than I did pre-pandemic because I had to force some healthy physical habits on myself while working from home.

[SamoyedFurFluff]

I think you skipped over “to me” before your quoted text. This tells me they might have some personal reason for their aversion besides aversion itself that makes total sense. Maybe they are a diabetic, cancer survivor, organ donor recipient, or have some other immune-related condition. I’m not a particularly social person and I know plenty of friends I haven’t been able to see without extra precautions because of this. Collectively the number of folks who are vulnerable to Covid from a pre-existing condition is a fairly significant size of the population. Maybe consider this?

[goldenchrome]

The elephant in the room is that many people are vulnerable because they suffer from obesity. One third of the population is obese and another one third is overweight. That’s two thirds of the population who could be significantly healthier if they shed their weight.

I feel that as a society we have moved on from solving that problem and we now treat it as a cost of living, but it’s an enormous dead weight on society.

We all look around for every little thing we can do to reduce our risk of getting sick but we’re collectively unable to eat less. It’s like bandaging up someone who got hit by a train.

[TranquilMarmot]

This comment is very out of left field. Are you calling me fat? Hahaha

[goldenchrome]

> Maybe they are a diabetic, cancer survivor, organ donor recipient, or have some other immune-related condition.

For most people who have weakened immune systems, they don’t have some rare disease. They’re just fat. That’s the state of the developed word right now.

[TranquilMarmot]

Thank you. People do no know everybody's situation, and those who come in here saying things like "COVID isn't a big deal" do not know everybody's story.

[TranquilMarmot]

I am thankful I do not have young children right now. I don't know what I would do!

I am taking the risk of social isolation into account- that is why I say "even though it is wrecking my mental health". It is something I am very aware of.

[mccorrinall]

I would have never called them friends in the first place. I have a strict line between friends and acquaintances.

Friends are those relationships which I made during childhood. I still keep those relationships up. We have a much stronger bond through the stuff we have been through together.

I think friendship needs very strong loyality which is just not given in a normal work environment. Eg I’d never lie in court for my acquaintances, but I have certainly for my friends.

[1vuio0pswjnm7]

"Eg. I'd never lie in court for my acquaintances, but I have for my friends."

You have lied in court. Is this correct. How do we know you are telling us the truth.

[mccorrinall]

That’s the neat part: You don’t!

But: It’s not hard to say „no, I have never seen him doing drugs“ or whatever.

Don’t expect everyone to say the truth just because game theory suggests to optimize for individual rather than mutual reward.

[feet]

Just assume everyone always lies on the internet

[n4r9]

Does this mean you don't think it likely/possible to make new friends as an adult?

[mccorrinall]

I am unsure whether I think this, but I haven’t found new friends since I left school.

I am 25.

[GuB-42]

Personally, for most of my closest friends, I made them at around you age (I am 40).

The reason is simple: I moved when I was 23, to a place where I didn't know anyone. I met people there, we did stuff together, often, because I was very available, because I didn't yet have other people to spend time with, and now we are friends.

If you already have an established group of friends, you are probably less available to make new ones. But if you find yourself in a situation where distance is created, that's when you are the most available to make new friends.

[TwoCent]

I'll offer a counter-example, to give you a bit of hope. I'm in my 50s. In the last 5 years I've gained one close friend and a handful of new friends in my social circle. Age is no barrier to forming friendships. You must be intentional about it. But new friendship happens throughout our lives.

[n4r9]

That's an honest and thoughtful answer :)

I'm only a decade older than you, but when I look back over that decade it feels like everything's changed. I've made new friends through hobbies, music, sports and yes, the workplace. I've lost touch with some people I thought were close friends. I've also been surprised by getting back in touch with people from school or university who I thought I might never hear from again.

Would I lie for those people in court (or vice versa)? I dunno. It's kind of a weird litmus test, because it depends on one's principles, how serious the charge is, and one's perspective on the legal system. It could happen, but I could only answer on a case by case basis. It's possible that I'd lie in court for a complete stranger if the circumstances were right. I struggle with absolutist views like "This is what friendship means and I will 100% behave in this way if that situation arises".

How would I define "friend" as opposed to "acquaintance"? Possibly as simple as: someone that you spend time with just for the enjoyment of it. If they're a work colleague, this means that you're likely to meet up socially, away from the office and work events (even if just online). Otherwise you're there because you have to be.

[TranquilMarmot]

My "best" friends that I am still in contact with are definitely from childhood. We all live in separate parts of the world now, but if I really needed help I know that they would come, just as I would go to help them.

[watwut]

Those people were bound to cease to be friends the moment either of you changes the job. If your crisis is after or relates to loosing a job (due to being sick for long time for example or due to staying at home with a small/sick child for some time), those friendships were bound to break.

[TranquilMarmot]

This was at a relatively small startup, so we all spent a lot of time together. Those that did leave are/were still in the friend group! I know this is pretty rare in the corporate world, but it really was a "special place" to work.

[dorchadas]

> We have a Discord server where we all still talk and chat, but it's a cheap imitation of what we used to have.

I moved half a world away for a masters and now have a job in another country. I feel this so much. I've been tempted to go back several times just because the lack of connection. It doesn't help I'm in a smaller country which makes it hard to break into friend groups when they've all known each other since secondary school (or longer) or Uni.

Discord really can't replace in-person discussion and experiences.

[antihero]

I really wouldn’t worry about COVID this much.

[whoooooo123]

How old are you? If you're reasonably young, and vaccinated, you really don't need to worry about COVID this badly. Practically everyone I know has had COVID by now and for most of them it was not much worse than catching a cold.

COVID is going to be around forever. I don't know why anyone is still letting it disrupt their lives.

[TranquilMarmot]

I'm 30 (I think that's reasonably young?) and have had many vaccinations, but you make a lot of assumptions about any preexisting conditions I and those close to me may have. COVID is a brand new disease and even in those with mild cases we are just now starting to understand the long-term effects, especially of getting it multiple times.

It is a bet that I'm taking; I'm definitely curious to see 10 years down the road the difference in health between me (with a few years of social isolation) and those I know that have caught COVID multiple times. Usually they are catching it multiple times within the span of a few months/a year.

[thebigspacefuck]

I started a new job, I’ve been going into the office occasionally, and I’ve made a few new friends already. It’s a breath of fresh air. Everyone I’ve talked to that’s gotten covid recently says it’s basically a cold by this point, so it’s not worth worrying about. President and Fauci said the pandemic is over months ago. It’s time to get out there and live again!