[kenhwang]

As someone with a bunch of idiotic friends that always find themselves needing SAR in North America. The rule of thumb within the group that has generally held true is: if you're on federal lands it's fully free, but if you're in resort, city, or state jurisdiction they'll absolutely try to claw back the costs.

The SAR might be technically "free", but they'll categorize as many things under "medical emergency" as possible and throw the book of fines at you.

[PierceJoy]

You might want to change North America to just America. In Canada, SAR is free no matter where you are. Clawing back costs isn't a thing here.

[kenhwang]

Free as long as you didn't sign an agreement saying you'd be responsible for the cost of SAR. Such as breaking resort rules by going out of bounds[1].

It's really the same as the US (other than our states and cities acting more like corporations), it comes down to who gets dispatched: if it's the government you're fine, but oftentimes if you're near a resort, it comes down to whether dispatch thinks the resort staff, a government agency, or a volunteer group is better suited for the rescue. If it's the resort, you might've agreed to give them the legal right to claw back costs.

[1] https://www.metro.us/grouse-bans-4-bills-for-rescue/

[PierceJoy]

Your link doesn’t really support your claim. It was a “fine” from a private resort, that by their own account is entirely unenforceable[1]. Essentially a request for a donation to SAR.

In practise, SAR is free in Canada no matter where you are. There are hundreds and hundreds of SAR calls in BC per year, and not a single person rescued has been required to pay a cent. Many of them do make donations though as a token of thanks.

[1] https://vancouversun.com/news/costs-still-being-tallied-afte...

[tlavoie]

Related, there is an excellent short (5-episode) series following Vancouver's North Shore Rescue. https://www.knowledge.ca/program/search-and-rescue-north-sho...

It certainly puts their efforts into perspective, including how easily people can run into trouble unprepared.

[Kwpolska]

The country you’re thinking of is called United States.

[PierceJoy]

It's incredibly common to refer to the US as America.

[circular_lights]

I love that your friends had enough instances to develop rules of thumb. :D Sounds like a fun bunch.

[throwawaylinux]

Whoa, SAR fines you if you have a medical emergency? As opposed to fire, flood, storm, natural disaster, mechanical breakdown, or just getting lost?

[kenhwang]

In one instance, yes, for simply getting so lost in the mountains in a state park that they decided it was best to call SAR when provisions ran out after dark. Dispatch routed the rescue request to the closest city fire department, they came out with a helicopter. City then left them with the bill for the helicopter (which was covered by health insurance as medical transport minus the deductible), and fines for trespassing (they weren't supposed go off marked trails) and staying in the park after closing/dark.

[throwawaylinux]

Oh, SAR will "creatively adjust" the incident report when people have health insurance, so that they can bill them for a medical emergency and have their insurance cover it? Sounds like fraud.

[kenhwang]

SAR doesn't care about whether you have insurance. They simply stick you with a bill if they think you were negligent or the situation shouldn't have happened if there was adequate preparation and/or skill.

Then you, the rescued, file a claim with whatever insurance you think is appropriate and make your case. Maybe insurance investigates and looks up the SAR incident report, maybe they don't. Either way SAR isn't part of any alleged insurance fraud.

[throwawaylinux]

you said this:

> The SAR might be technically "free", but they'll categorize as many things under "medical emergency" as possible and throw the book of fines at you.

And then seemed to imply that's what they did when someone just got lost. Okay they will do it regardless if you have insurance or not, still fraud isn't it?

[kenhwang]

There's generally a medical component to SAR. If you don't need medical attention or weren't at risk of needing medical attention, what's the rush?

Search is trivial if you're calling in help yourself since just about any device that can call for help will communicate where you are. Gets more complicated for a wide area search called in by someone else though, because that is expensive; but then the target's medical condition is unknown and likely assumed to be for the worst.

If you're completely healthy but in need of rescue eventually, they'll dispatch some better equipped volunteers to retrace your steps and rescue you out of whatever situation you're in.

One time our rope caught on something after we released it, so we couldn't ascend to unstick it, but couldn't descend further without the rope. That would've been a SAR call if there wasn't another group above us that could partially descend on their rope and unstick our rope for us. But it would've been a trivial rescue since we could've reasonably survived stuck on the shaded alcove for a couple days until we got another rope. A ranger or volunteer would've been dispatched to unstick the rope or with their own for us to use, not a helicopter to extract us out.

It's when there's an immediate risk to life, that's what causes urgency, which is the main driver for cost because then typically helicopters are involved. If they itemize by search, rescue, and medical, why wouldn't medical greatly dominate the costs?