[cbsmith]

> The performance issue here is not value semantics

There's no performance cost to value semantics, so of course not.

> The copy is cheap. The lifetime tracking is not because it forces a heap allocation and creates additional GC pressure. In fact, assuming Rule is small, if Match returned by value, the code would be similarly as fast.

I'm referring more to how this stuff seeps in without the programmer realizing it. It's the implicit nature of all this behaviour that is the problem.

[tylerhou]

Sorry, because of value semantics. (Also, you wrote "performance costs of inopportune value semantics". So the correction is annoying; you know what I meant.)

This stuff seeps in without the programmer realizing it because Go made a deliberate design decision to have automatic lifetime management. In other words, this is a feature of the language and not a bug. The only way for this to not seep in is if Go forced programmers to specify most lifetimes, which would make the language much more cumbersome to use.

I.e., this is not a value-vs-reference semantics issue. It's a manual-lifetime-management vs automatic-lifetime-management issue. The solution is to either 1) write in a language with more explicit lifetimes if performance is that important, or 2) profile your code and reduce heap allocations, which is what the person who wrote the article did.

[cbsmith]

Sorry for being annoying. I wasn't trying to be.

I would disagree about this stuff seeping in because of automatic lifetime management. The equivalent code in Java, Smalltalk, etc., would either not have the performance problem or it would be much more obvious that the code wasn't as efficient as it could be.

[tylerhou]

> Sorry for being annoying. I wasn't trying to be.

Thanks, no worries.

You're right that Java doesn't have this performance problem because it (apart from primitives) has no implicit copies. (So the code wouldn't copy, it would return a reference, hence no allocation.)

I think what you're trying to say is: programs written languages with value semantics can implicitly create more objects, which (in some cases) have additional allocation/lifetime tracking in languages with automatic lifetime management. So maybe one solution is to prevent copies in most circumstances, and when you do need to copy, make them explicit.

But I think this conflicts with Go's philosophy as well. First, in highly concurrent programs, copies are necessary. A mutex/atomic will become a bottleneck; sharing is bad for performance. This means that copies should be part of most types in the language. (If they aren't, you'll run into issues like not being able to pickle when using multiprocessing in Python [1].)

OK, so we need copies. But clearly, I shouldn't have to write `a = b.Copy()` if b is an integer. That's too verbose. And if everything has a `.Copy()` call, that leads to visual noise and it's not clear when copies are actually expensive. So what set of "blessed" types should be implicitly copyable? Java picks primitives, but this means it's basically impossible to create an int-like object with value semantics. I think this is bad. C++ is at the other extreme with "(almost) all objects are implicitly copyable" but some people dislike how forgetting a & on a std::vector type might lead to a huge copy.

Go has chosen a reasonable middle ground -- dynamically sized types like arrays and maps are not implicitly copyable, but "cheap" objects like structs are implicitly copyable. This means that when you see a Copy call, it's meaningful. But this means you run into these situations when an implicit copy interacting with lifetimes/garbage collection causes a slowdown. But I don't see any other alternative. Getting rid of implicit copies for cheap types will cause visual noise. Getting rid of GC makes your language harder to use. Both of these alternatives seem worse to me.

To be clear, I'm not a huge fan of Go. Especially around the lack of monadic error handling. But I think they have done a decent job wrt. their design goals.

[1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8804830/python-multiproc...