[nomel]

What "game" are they too late for? The number of ports is the game, and the reason my next EV will be a Tesla.

It's very difficult to find charge stations that aren't Tesla, and when you do, they're often used for general parking.

[margalabargala]

Out of curiosity, where in the US are you?

Where I am (Oregon), public CCS charger locations outnumber Tesla chargers several times over. There are huge areas of the state that have CCS chargers, but no Tesla charging capacity.

My next EV will certainly not be a Tesla, for that reason.

[chroma]

Tesla Superchargers outnumber all other HVDC chargers in every state, usually by a factor of 2. Maybe you're thinking of the chargers that use the J1772 connector?[1] Those charge via AC, and every Tesla comes with an adapter for them. Tesla also sells a CCS adapter in case you want to use other high voltage chargers such as Electrify America.[2] Though honestly, other charging networks are a shitshow. A friend of mine has an Audi e-tron and he won't drive it farther than Tahoe. Electrify America is too unreliable to trust for road trips.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

2. https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter

[margalabargala]

No, I'm not thinking of J1772 chargers. I'm thinking of CCS chargers.

We're talking about two different things.

You are talking about the count of chargers. Tesla has a higher quantity of chargers, yes. However, their chargers are concentrated; a single charging location has 30+ chargers. This drives their high charger count numbers.

CCS chargers are more geographically widespread. There are more locations with CCS chargers than with Tesla chargers. There are fewer CCS plugs in total, but you're more likely to be close to one.

It's more useful to have one fast-charging location with 3 plugs every 50 miles, than to have 500 fast-chargers next to one another in a single location and then nothing in a 200-mile radius.

If you go to plugshare.com and zoom in to Oregon, you can toggle back and forth between Tesla and CCS. There are very visibly way more discrete places in Oregon that have a CCS charger.

[chroma]

The supercharger network is now dense enough that you can drive anywhere in the US without worry. The largest gap in the nation is between Coeur d'Alene, ID and Superior, MT, and that's 100 miles. I've gone to rural Montana and Idaho in the winter and I've never had to worry about charging.

Also while Plugshare may show more dots on a map, that doesn't correspond to useful charging. Non-Tesla charging stations are notoriously inconvenient, unreliable, and slow to charge. That's why my friend with the e-tron rents a gas car if he wants to go more than a few hundred miles. This is borne out again and again in tests. When MKBHD tested a Tesla and a Mustang Mach-E, the Mach-E itself was fine but the charging infrastructure was unreliable.[1] The Mustang was delayed over 6 hours due to bad charging.

I've put almost 30,000 miles on my car and I've never had an issue with a supercharger. You just plug in and it charges. You don't need to install any apps or enter your credit card info. And if for some crazy reason I can't use a supercharger, I have adapters for the other connectors.

If you want the electric vehicle that can charge in the most places, get a Tesla.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXzuFprlyrw

[margalabargala]

> Non-Tesla charging stations are notoriously inconvenient, unreliable, and slow to charge

All my arguments are geographically based. In Oregon, this is not the case. In the last three years, I've never pulled up to a CCS charger and had all chargers be out of service or sub-50kw. Rarely have I ever had to wait in line for such a charger. As no adapter is necessary, I consider this superior to Tesla. There are towns we frequent on the Oregon coast that are far from any Tesla chargers, but are dotted with CCS chargers. When my friend comes with us and brings his Model 3, he has to take at least one detour that's over a half hour each way so that he can charge for the trip home. We do not have to do this.

Adapters are a good stopgap but not everyone has one, because they're somehow not stock with the car.

[gibolt]

While there is value to distribution, having only 3 plugs where any number could be full or non-functional upon arrival easily ruins a whole trip.

[margalabargala]

I fully agree. That would be awful.

That said, we've so far not had any issues with that in the last two years; while sometimes only a subset of chargers at a location have been working, it's never been zero, and we've rarely had to wait in line.

Maybe we've been lucky. Or maybe Oregon is special. But in the face of reliable chargers, I prefer a smaller, widespread count over larger numbers in a concentrated location.

[nomel]

California, near a city of over a million people. It's maybe 4 (Tesla) to 1 where I am, physically, with most non-tesla ports being 240V. I've even run into 120V. Available port wise, it's much much worse. Until these other companies implement a fee/reporting system, for sitting in the charge spot all day, it's going to remain very painful.

A family friend returned her EV after realizing how dumb the situation is here. Perhaps it's a regional problem.