[akozak]

Tesla is at least 5 years late here, maybe more like 10. All of the US federal funds will likely go to CCS now because they stuck to the proprietary network strategy, despite the OBVIOUS and natural social utility from an open industry-wide standard and charging networks open to all.

For reference here is the DOT's NPRM from June laying out the proposed requirements for states to receive federal funds from the infrastructure package: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/06/22/2022-12...

[sneak]

From the article:

> NACS vehicles outnumber CCS two-to-one, and Tesla's Supercharging network has 60% more NACS posts than all the CCS-equipped networks combined.

This suggests to me it’s not Tesla that’s late. If anything is a society-wide EV standard in North America, it’s the Tesla plug.

[DannyBee]

At one point that number was probably 100% or very close to it. Now it's 60%.

It has nowhere to go but now, and is almost certainly dropping fast.

The number is also a feint.

It's true that NACS outnumbers CCS, but that's because they are only comparing fast-charging spots, which they outnumber.

If you included the J1772 part, tesla is outnumbered at this point in the US.

Going by ports (because that's what tesla is counting in their numbers).

There are ~92000 public level 2 ports (not chargers) in the US. That does not include the DC fast charging ports. There are about 20k of these.

There are 35,000 tesla ports (which tracks, since this is 60% more than 20k) For tesla, there is no difference between dc fast charging and non ports.

So the number cited is, as per usual for tesla, misleading, since it ignores the level 2 ports that are commonly used. There are 2.5x more of those, and combined with CCS, there are 3x more ports total than tesla's standard.

I like the connector for sure, but it's way too late.

[novok]

Those metrics are deceptive, because tesla has consistently working chargers while the other ones tend to be broken at a way higher rate.

[DannyBee]

I have no idea where your data is coming from, and doesn't match my tesla or non-tesla experience, but this actually would change nothing even if true.

[novok]

You see constant EV road trip comparison videos and consistently see how bad EV chargers hamper the non-tesla cars, while the tesla chargers are consistently reliable. Go look around in the news and more.

[DannyBee]

I don't see either? I also road trip quite often, and have road trip'd in a lot of places of the country in my EV, and again, my experience doesn't match this at all.

Maybe 5-6 years ago, it was true, but it's definitely not true anymore.

I can't even remember the last time i hit a non-working non-tesla charger on a road trip or locally

[chroma]

It's great that J1772 is ubiquitous, but it charges too slowly to be useful for road trips. It's meant for "destination charging" such as hotels and homes, where the car will be sitting around for hours. It can't substitute for fast DC charging, so it shouldn't be counted.

[DannyBee]

You are sort of missing the point, i think.

Tesla is claiming that now is a good time to move to NACS because they already have 60% more NACS ports than CCS.

But this is not really right, because all those cars/charge stations also have J1772 connectors they are using and would no longer work.

So

1. Tesla is a lot less ubiquitous than they are claiming. J1772 + CCS is far more ubiquitous - by a factor of 3x.

2. You'd either have to retrofit or use adapters for all the J1772 stations as well (Yes, tesla ships an adapter, i know).

3. Nobody is going to do that.

[hedora]

The way I read the "two to one" number is that Tesla's market share in NA is collapsing.

Even if competitors decide to use the Tesla standard, it'll be a few years before they ship it. By then, Tesla's current 66% share of deployed vehicles will almost certainly have dropped to less than 50%.

Also, Musk said they're opening up superchargers to CCS soon, so car buyers like me don't think the Tesla connector is a differentiator any more.

Having said that, I have a CCS car, and charge station availability is totally fine, at least in the parts of California where superchargers exist.

[rnk]

Tesla has been the defacto standard, yes. But their lead has been declining. All the other ev car drivers would have been better off if they could use tesla charging stations, since the entire industry is basically terrible except for tesla superchargers. With tesla saying they'll finally support ccs cars in the us I think ccs will win. You have to point to the clever infrastructure bills in congress, I think that money is what pulled tesla through to supporting ccs (eventually).