[lazide]

If by 'they thought they were honest and doing things properly' you think the same for Madoff, then oof.

Actions and results matter. Intentions can easily be bullshit and delusion.

If someone is committing multi-billion dollar fraud, there is a line that was crossed a LONG time ago.

[adastra22]

I read him as saying they thought they were doing honest things.

[lazide]

I was referring to the same miscreants as the poster was.

It’s only plausible to a certain point that they were unknowingly bad actors. They’d have to willingly be deluding themselves.

No one commits multi-billion dollar fraud accidentally.

They’d have to turn a blind eye to something any reasonable person would consider a ‘are we the baddies’ moment. Or two. Or dozens.

As to if it’s documented? One can hope, but I’m not holding my breath. I’m sure there have been many shredder parties (or digital equivalents) happening in many places since the news broke.

[adastra22]

Oh you’d be surprised. I think most people are capable of this kind of fraud. It’s human nature to judge others by their actions, but judge yourself by your intentions.

[lazide]

Capable, yeah. Capable without knowing they’re doing something wrong? Yeah, no.

Most people cross that threshold well before a million bucks.

You can tell by the shape of the lies that are inevitably told. Someone who actually thinks they’re doing something ok won’t go to such lengths to hide important details, or omit specific things that are inevitably omitted.

And in this case, why not just update the TOS to be clear what they’re doing?

Because they know it’s wrong.

What you’re talking about is willful delusion.

Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, etc.

[skinnymuch]

Yeah and the point is no one sane would seriously say Madoff thought he was being honest. They’re making an analogy between Madoff and SBF being similar/the same.