[LeafGuild]

That's a marketing line, it's not true. Nobody actually has any custody of anything in crypto. The value of the tokens is completely and totally dependent on a consensus of crypto miners doing their job within the parameters of the system, assuming you want them to maintain a price and trading volume that's favorable to the token holders. If the majority of miners suddenly go bust due to outside circumstances, or they decide to conspire together and attack the system, or conspire with some whales to perform a rug pull, or any number of other malicious actions, then it's extremely likely that your tokens aren't going to be worth anything anymore. This applies to every token, including bitcoin.

[mirzap]

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Even if all miners right now colluded and tried to take bitcoin from my wallet - they couldn't. Miners can collude and try to double spend the transaction, hurting centralized exchange for example, but they can not ever take funds from a wallet. You own what's in your wallet. Also, price doesn't depend on miners. Very often in these bear markets miners mine with huge loss. Many give up in those circumstances. If they had any impact on price we wouldn't see so many miners go out of the business.

[jimbob21]

Wow you are uninformed.

>The value of the tokens is completely and totally dependent on a consensus of crypto miners doing their job within the parameters of the system, assuming you want them to maintain a price and trading volume that's favorable to the token holders.

Number of miners has absolutely nothing to do with trading volumes, not sure where you got that from. Miners don't maintain a price any more than a whale maintains a price.

>If the majority of miners suddenly go bust due to outside circumstances

The rest of the miners would step in and start making more money, actually.

>they decide to conspire together and attack the system, or conspire with some whales to perform a rug pull

Not much of a rug pull to sell the tokens you've legitimately acquired through mining or fiat buying. That's just selling. High volatility selling, yes, but still just selling.

>it's extremely likely that your tokens aren't going to be worth anything anymore. This applies to every token, including bitcoin.

Oh yes, Bitcoin has died thousands of times. Maybe you'll be right one day, but I doubt it.

[LeafGuild]

>Wow you are uninformed.

Avoid this style of comment, please.

>Miners don't maintain a price any more than a whale maintains a price.

Yes, my point is both of them have a means and incentive to manipulate the price in ways that may not be favorable to the trader.

>The rest of the miners would step in and start making more money, actually.

Yes, at the cost of removing some of the security of the system. They can only maintain security if they have immediate access to more hash power which they probably don't. In that moment because of the sudden drop in hash power, the network is vulnerable to an attack by other malicious miners coming in and taking over. Alternately, if the rest of the miners notice what's going on they could see this as increased opportunity for them to conspire and become malicious.

>Not much of a rug pull to sell the tokens you've legitimately acquired through mining or fiat buying. That's just selling. High volatility selling, yes, but still just selling.

This right here is the conversation I most dread having with crypto people. It's fraud. You can call it fraud. Manipulating the market so the price is artificially high and then dumping it off onto unsuspecting buyers is a fraud. It doesn't matter how you initially got the coins. Yes, we can group different types of selling into different categories, like ones that are fraudulent and ones that aren't.

>Oh yes, Bitcoin has died thousands of times.

The exception that proves the rule, huh? There are definitely thousands of shitcoins that have crashed and burned and won't ever recover because they were plain old ponzis. Bitcoin crashed a lot of times, not thousands, but enough to wipe lots of people out every time it happens, relative to the number of people using bitcoin at the time. It's still not clear that any of the money moving around in bitcoin is actually real money or assets. I'm certain it's a ponzi too.

>Maybe you'll be right one day, but I doubt it.

So you're saying bitcoin is too big to fail, is that right?

[eric_cc]

As others have pointed out, this is completely wrong in literally every way possible.

> Nobody actually has any custody of anything in crypto.

This is insanely wrong and it’s unreal things like this are being said in 2022.

DeFi Example: Take your self-custody bitcoin to Thorswap and exchange it for Ethereum. Pure defi. No trust needed. Total self-custody cross chain trading.

[abhimanyue1998]

that is true, but the whole ethos of DeFi is to make the process of mining as decentralised as possible. Have many validators, separated across the globe etc. Obviously, there are still chances that all the miners conspire and kill the system, but the chances of that are decreased with increased decentralisation in the mining and validation process.