[msmith]

I wonder if you've read Turn the Ship Around [1]? It's one of my favorite leadership books and tells the true story of the Navy captain who was put in the awkward position of running a submarine class that he was not familiar with.

He adapted to the situation by leaning on the expertise of the crew in a way that was very different than the normal command-and-control style of leadership. It sounds like what you describe in type 1.

[1] https://davidmarquet.com/turn-the-ship-around-book/

[ok_dad]

Yea, the Navy has basically fostered a shit culture that turned the leadership into MBA-style bullshit artists today. Leadership isn't taken seriously, just promotions and personal gain. Only those who kiss ass can make it in today's Navy.

If more leaders like this guy who wrote this book were sent to the top levels, it would be an improvement. Instead, you notice he's writing books for a living now.

[matai_kolila]

FWIW they teach 1 in MBA schools, if MBAs are doing 2 it's despite their education, not because of it.

Also most top tier MBA programs are an excuse to get wildly drunk basically daily and make a bunch of powerful friends, so it's very possible most people who go don't learn a damn thing.

[ok_dad]

Same with leadership and officers, we definitely got good training teaching #1, but the actual culture of the fleet is #2.

Sorry to rag on MBAs.

[agrajag]

A major problem is that life in the Navy sucks too much compared to the civilian world, so that most of the competent Naval Officers leave, and you end up with a pretty small pool of competent leaders. It’s a super weird dynamic where junior officers are on average more competent than mid-career officers.

As for why life sucks so much, leadership has let there be too much to do with too few people, and inflexible systems.

[ramesh31]

>Yea, the Navy has basically fostered a shit culture that turned the leadership into MBA-style bullshit artists today. Leadership isn't taken seriously, just promotions and personal gain. Only those who kiss ass can make it in today's Navy.

This is a disease of all peacetime militaries. The Army suffers the same problem. They spend an entire career LARPing in camouflage, and think that somehow means they know anything at all about warfare or leadership.

[brightball]

When I read about Lockheed’s stealth ship, I assumed people would be excited about them.

Because they were run by such a small crew, nobody wanted to command them because the number of people under your command mattered for rank advancement.