[_0ffh]

That you do not agree with the definition of capitalism that was given at the origin of this exchange does not mean that I have to abide by yours.

You can argue against your strawman-capitalism all you want, I do not care. If you insist that capitalism is not about protecting everyone's right to their property, I see no point in carrying on.

[pastacacioepepe]

That's not my definition, it's the Wikipedia definition. Where does yours come from?

Also would you answer to my initial request to explain how transactions can be voluntary in a capitalist system where most people dont own property, the means of production.

[_0ffh]

Even the very same Wikipedia article you quote admits that central characteristics of capitalism include competitive markets, private property, property rights recognition, and voluntary exchange.

Neither National Socialism nor Fascist corporatism had strong protection of

- competitive markets: markets where heavily regulated and great parts of national production and ressources where directed and allocated by the government, preventing competition and free exchange

- property rights: lots of property was outright stolen from their rightful owners, the means of production were ultimately controlled by the government

- voluntary exchange: lots of people where forced into slave labor, which is decidedly involuntary

So yes, these were state socialist societies, not capitalist ones.

[mftrhu]

Oh, you probably meant "state capitalist". The definition of that fits to a tee.

> State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes business and commercial (i.e. for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are nationalized as state-owned enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, centralized management and wage labor). [...] Other examples include Singapore under Lee Kuan Yew and Turkey, as well as military dictatorships during the Cold War and fascist regimes such as Nazi Germany.

[_0ffh]

Lol, "Marxist literature defines state capitalism as a social system combining capitalism with ownership or control by a state".

Excuse me, when I respectfully decline that definition. What makes or breaks capitalism is private property, including and specifically of the "means of production", also called "capital goods".

"Engels argued that the tools for ending capitalism are found in state capitalism", that's like saying that eating your steak well done gives you the tools for slaughtering the cow.

OTOH, "It is not commonly realized that State Capitalism covers nothing more than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy, and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the classic ideal of egalitarian Socialism". At least one can find some sensible definitions in the article.