[jlangenauer]

As a very broad generalization, Europe treats businesses as businesses, rather than financial instruments. They are expected to grow and be profitable, rather than be fattened like cows for an eventual slaughter.

That's why Europe has thousands of "small" companies whose revenue might "only" be a billion dollars or so, but they are sustainable companies who generally have accrued a competitive global advantage through years, and decades of R&D. The end result of this is that Europe - certainly Western Europe, and increasingly Central and Eastern Europe - has one of the highest standards of living in the world.

Sure, the VCs and investors who only want to make money without producing anything of value themselves don't like this model, but fuck 'em.

[oytis]

> Europe - certainly Western Europe, and increasingly Central and Eastern Europe - has one of the highest standards of living in the world.

I have a feeling that with the current energy crisis this might not age very well.

[jlangenauer]

The thing about energy crises is that they provoke new forms of innovation and can usher in necessary change. Europe made a strategic mistake, but they are correcting it, and even if the next few years are hard, it's not going to have too many deleterious long-term effects.

[oytis]

If we somehow solve renewable energy problem that would be amazing. It requires deep innovation though, and with most top universities being outside of the EU it is frankly unlikely Europe will lead the way here.

Also, looking at deals with Qatar (failed AFAIK), Azerbaijan, and the latest developments about Hamburg harbour, I think we still have many exciting strategic mistakes ahead.

[dave4420]

That’s true, but can hardly be blamed on their tax or higher education policies, surely?

[medo-bear]

i have a feeling that in the long term it might. also increasingly people accross europe are realizing that the US (and of course the UK) see them as competitors while the US elites are relizing that the EU as a living destination is becoming more attractive than US

[oytis]

> people accross europe are realizing that the US (and of course the UK) see them as competitors

That's been quite a while already.

> US elites are relizing that the EU as a living destination is becoming more attractive than US

It's hardly more attractive for elites. It's already been quite a while: some people moving from the US to EU for a comfortable life while others moving from EU to the US for self-realization, studying in top universities and working for top companies. Pretty precarious situation long term. At least our politics (at least in Germany and westwards) seems more stable though.

[medo-bear]

> It's hardly more attractive for elites

i meant to say something different. namely there is a growing push in the us for a european style social safety net which is a concern for the us elites

[hef19898]

You are aware that the crisis is, besides some energy price spikes that will affect consumers and industry for a while, is basically over since both electricity and gas are readily available?

[oytis]

Hm... I've just checked gas prices and they are still 10x higher than 2020. It's not obvious to me that German industry in general and chemical industry in particular can stay competitive at this price point.

[hef19898]

Gas prices for customers are high, over simplified of course, because everybody and their grandparents raced to fill gas reserves before winter. That was because nobody really knew how things would be without a stable supply of gas from Russia. That drove prices up, and that expensive inventory is now sitting there. With gas consumption down (weather and in general) it is not possible to mix the expensive inventory with cheap one. So, until the expensive gas is consumed, prices for customers will be high. Unless the government steps in (the German one does come December). Overall, spot market gas prices have even been negative lately.

Electricity should be fine as well, Germany keeps three nuclear plants online long enough for the French fleet to be back, in exchange for gas from France. And you don't exchange electricity for gas if electricity itself is a limited factor.