[kragen]

Hmm, a minor quibble: "VLSI" would be normally more than 10k gates or 100k transistors on a single chip, wouldn't it? But the 8008 had only about 3500 transistors (I don't see an exact count in http://www.righto.com/2016/12/die-photos-and-analysis-of_24....) and so probably about 1000–1500 gates, so I think it should be called "LSI" rather than "VLSI".

A funny thing about the 8008 is that Intel's manual for its instruction set is unnecessarily shitty — even if you didn't know the history with Datapoint, the Intel manual is obviously not by the people who designed the instruction set because it's in hexadecimal, a tradition sadly followed by the 8080 and 8086 manuals. The Datapoint manuals, by contrast, are all in octal, making the machine code enormously easier to understand. (The H8 I grew up with used an Intel chip, but the front panel monitor program used octal.)

[kens]

Yes, it's kind of amazing how the 8080/Z80/8086 instructions sets make much more sense in octal, but are always displayed in hexadecimal. In hex, you can kind of see some patterns, but everything is obvious in octal. The 6502 is also based on bit triples, but they grouped the bits from the top, so octal doesn't make things any better.

The Datapoint 2200, by the way, used decimal decoder chips to decode the octal parts of the instruction set and simply ignored the 8 and 9 outputs.

[pencilguin]

Veering radically off topic, Ken, I recently became aware of the US Navy's transistorized fleet-wide fire-control computers of the early 1960s. Is there anybody restoring those and presenting museum exhibits of their capabilities? They were fielded as replicated networked real-time load-sharing multi-processors in 1965! Why didn't the Apollo program draw on that experience?

Also, speaking of Apollo, Hal Laning made the first-ever actual compiler, in the mid-late-'50s, and a real-time multi-tasking load-shedding OS for Apollo, and was snubbed for the Turing Award every year after right up to his death. I never even encountered his name until I read Sunburst and Luminary.

Why do we ignore the real pioneers?

[segfaultbuserr]

> They were fielded as replicated networked real-time load-sharing multi-processors in 1965! Why didn't the Apollo program draw on that experience? [...] Why do we ignore the real pioneers?

I think early computer history in general worked this way. Communication was slow before the Internet. Computer engineering largely existed as an art to build isolated one-off systems. Basic concepts were painstaking reinvented and re-engineered all the time under different circumstances. Lack of standard architectures made transfer of concepts difficult. And in the end, many computer designs die in isolation and obscurity, whose architectures left no influence, and no heritage can be found in later computers. The game only changed after minicomputers, which turned computers into mass-market products. Microprocessors did it to a greater degree.

NSA's SIGSALY system, built in late World War 2 that already pioneered digital-to-analog conversion, digital signal processing, digital PCM audio, speech compression codec, and cryptography. But I doubt later DSP engineers ever heard of this project.

Or consider Multics, a relatively late and well-known system. Today it would be called a "cloud-computing" operation system, designed for a world where computers are public utilities to provide time-sharing service to the public, in a way similar to telephone or electricity. Its operating system designed for strong reliability and security. But its architecture was all but forgotten (the hierarchical file system survived in Unix, but it was a minor feature compared to Multics real achievements - and I suspect it's not the firs time the hierarchic file system was invented). Why didn't later computers reuse its design and concepts? For starter, Multics was designed to on a modified GE-600 mainframe with customized hardware. Nobody else in the world has the same machine.

It's why it's crucial to perverse any remaining historical materials. Otherwise we won't even know even their existence.

[kragen]

Since Unix was written as an effort to recapture the good parts of Multics after Bell Labs pulled out, and the people working on Unix for the first several years had also been working on Multics before that, I don't think Multics is a good example of "Basic concepts were painstaking reinvented and re-engineered all the time under different circumstances. … die in isolation and obscurity, whose architectures left no influence." The people who worked on Unix for its first decade were intimately familiar with Multics, and Multics was well-documented publicly at the time, unlike certain other systems from the 01960s. The research literature in subsequent years frequently compared and contrasted systems designs with Multics's design.

Even some of the Multics features that weren't in Unix in its first decade, like ACLs, memory-mapped files, process accounting, shared libraries, and SMP support, got added to Unix later.

All this is to say that, to the extent that later systems rejected Multics's design decisions, they did it consciously, not out of ignorance. It's easy to look back at the things Multics attempted, like strong security, and believe that it achieved them, and consequently that more recent systems designs represent backsliding. In many cases, though (like that one!) it did not, and later systems designs solve unanticipated problems that arose from the Multics design choices.

A lot of DSP, speech codec, and even TCP/IP work in later decades was guided by NSA people who were familiar with the SIGSALY history, even if they didn't tell the uncleared people they were working with. See https://ee.stanford.edu/~gray/lpcip/ for a detailed history of speech protocols. In other cases, like the DES, the NSA people deliberately sabotaged the resulting work.

I do agree that preserving historical materials is important.

[kens]

Are you talking about the Navy Tactical Data System (NTDS)? This important system (that Cray worked on) is mostly forgotten, but the book "When Computers Went to Sea" provides good coverage. There's one on exhibit at the Computer History Museum. Apollo did make heavy use of them: the Univac 642B computers from NTDS were used at the ground stations around the world, relaying data to Mission Control.

[pencilguin]

Wow, thanks! Had no idea of their role in Apollo.

[kragen]

Shit, that's brilliant! I guess the 74138 didn't exist yet? JiaLiChuang PCB has the 74HC138 in their "basic" parts list for free PCB pick-and-place but no decimal decoders. The CD405[123] did exist but were presumably far too slow for Datapoint.