[jajag]

European commissioners aren't elected in any sense of the word, they're appointed by national governments. Even if the US president is elected via an electoral college, the outcome of that vote is very much driven by the popular vote - it's in absolutely no way comparable to the way commissioners are put in office.

[frostburg]

The national governments are either elected directly or by a directly elected parliament; there is not as much difference as you think when you consider the state-level mechanics of the electoral college (commissioners also have a lot less power, this one is just pointing out the obvious fact that Musk isn't the law, the law is the law).

[eastendguy]

> they're appointed by national governments.

...which are elected.

So if you want e. g. a right-wing EU commissioner just vote for your local right-wing party. It is that easy.

[mcv]

I think most national governments are also appointed. By the national parliaments, which are elected.

Maybe the EC should be appointed by the EP. That way it would be about as democratic as most national governments. Of course the problem there is that the EP is incredibly fragmented and there are almost no European parties; they're all national parties, so it's going to be hard getting a majority of those to agree on a government. I guess that's a big part of the reason why it's done by the smaller number of national governments instead, and the EP can only approve or reject.

[raspberry1337]

>..which are elected.

How indirect can democracy be until its still democracy?

[hef19898]

Short answer? Very.

[origin_path]

Only in theory. In practice the head of the Commission has the ability to veto the countries proposals, an ability you won't find in any treaty because it's not meant to exist. Nonetheless, Juncker said:

https://www.rp.pl/swiat/art1359931-juncker-kaczynski-nie-chc...

"Nobody knows this, but last time I rejected six commissioners that had been presented to me by national governments.

Also from Central Europe?

Yes.

From Hungary?

Not.

From Poland?

Not. If I wanted it to be made public, I would have done it long ago. Let me just remind you that governments only propose commissioners, but it is the President of the European Commission who accepts them and divides their competences between them, and the European Parliament approves or rejects it."

The EU spreads a lot of misinformation about its own operations. Here Juncker "reminds" the journalist of an arrangement that is explicitly not allowed by the treaties, which say the head of the Commission must accept whoever is sent by each country. He also admits that "nobody knows this" and that he never made it public. In case you think he would have accepted a right wing commissioner, let us recall this is the same man who railed against "stupid populists", said "The European Parliament is ridiculous, very ridiculous" and kept threatening eastern European countries that elected conservative governments with fines and sanctions. Von Der Layen is even worse, reacting to Italy's recent election of a right wing politician by saying that "if things go in difficult directions, we have tools".

What happens in reality doesn't match what's written in the treaties much of the time. It's very effective misinformation. This thread is full of people making claims about how the EU works that reflects its own claims (or propaganda), but doesn't match the documented reality of how Brussels decision making actually operates.

[jen20]

> the outcome of that vote is very much driven by the popular vote

We’ll see about that when the far right has finished installing election officials wherever it can.

[pmoriarty]

Not to mention perversions of democracy like gerrymandering and the use of easily hackable electronic voting machines.