[AOsborn]

> That quite literally cannot be the status quo going forward.

Honestly, I disagree. The Apple customer experience and product ecosystem is just so far ahead of any competitors I don't want to use anything else. As far as the store is concerned specifically, I want to be able to use one store with a clear policy around payments, subscriptions and refunds - not a myriad of half-baked competitors with fragmented offerings.

[smoldesu]

That's great, I support that option for you. Personally, I just want to use the Open Source apps that Apple won't let me install. If I can have that, then there's no reason we can't both live in perfect harmony. That system works perfectly fine on Android and Google even manages to make a handsome bundle off the Play Store to boot.

[bnj]

I used to think of this in terms of, “it doesn’t hurt me if other people can install whatever they like on their phones.”

However, when I thought it out, I realized that if the App Store wasn’t the one and only distribution model for apps, then profit motives would push companies to use those other mechanisms—presumably competing app stores like steam, or just installation of apps ala carte.

I realized that I’m not even completely in control of which apps I need, because if there’s an app I need for a car, or I need to install something for work, I’m just not always in a position to decide NOT to install something.

So even though I like the idea of keeping my App Store and letting anyone else do what they want… isn’t there some truth to the idea that if there were ways around the App Store then it would create a wedge that effectively forced a lot of fracturing?

[smoldesu]

Correction: profit motives would push Apple to fix the App Store, since it would no longer be competitive with the offerings smaller companies can build for themselves. Which is a good thing - Apple admit the 30% cut was excessive and reluctantly dropped the cut for select users. The long-term solution is forcing them to compete with the rest of the industry, which is what will foster healthy relationships with developers instead of Apple holding their users and developers in a Mexican standoff.

[Lewton]

Both bnj's point and yours can be true at the same time

[ohgodplsno]

Nope. See Android, where Facebook is available on the play store, and so is every app, because you simply cannot afford to not be there. Apps like Telegram offer both a play store version, and a self-managed APK that offers other features that Google refuses in the play store.

[bee_rider]

Yeah, I don't really want an EPIC store on my phone, but I'd love a GNU repo.

I dunno. Maybe Apple could allow stores on their phones, but still take a % of any purchases, to annoy EPIC and their ilk into buggering off.

[smoldesu]

You're not getting an official GNU repo if Apple still takes a cut. They'd only set one up on their terms, which Apple is chronically incapable of cooperating with.

[bee_rider]

An ubuntu repo could be OK if there were no better options.

[johnny22]

a cut of $0 is 0 :)

[wiredfool]

The _moment_ there's an option, there will be a Facebook store, and it will have things like that vpn app that routed all traffic through Facebook so that they could do analytics on it. There will be cross app device/user level identifiers.

Facebook will drive something like 10-50% of people to add their store if it's the only way they can have their insta/whatsapp/fb/whateverthehellelse.

Google will probably roll out a play store as well. I don't think they're going to be as overtly evil, but they're still going to be be going around Apple's privacy protections if at all possible. (Why not? I get the feeling that FB is more on the back foot with metaverse and other flat/failing metrics, and google has more to drive people to them between Chrome, Android, and GApps.)

And others? There will probably be at least 10-100 app stores, and I would be shocked if there wasn't one that attempted to do things like a hidden RAT/Rootkit. I'm not saying that the app store review process solves a malware problem, but it is one layer in a defense in depth. It certainly has kept my extended family's devices in better shape than their computers, which I've had to clean occasionally.

This is a version of good of the many vs good of the few (Sorry, been looking at Star Trek lately). On the one hand, there are companies that would like a bigger hit of the pie, + a fringe of people who have enough knowledge and skills to manage to manually setup a secure phone with alternative/os/apps. On the other, there's Apple and a vast swath of humanity where the iPhone/iPad is probably the most secure computing device they can hope to own, and is yet still useful.

[threeseed]

> I just want to use the Open Source apps that Apple won't let me install

You could signup for the developer program. Or use something like AltServer.

[smoldesu]

That's $99 (per year(!!!)), which is not very free or open.

[threeseed]

I never said it was free or open. You can try AltStore which is both.

[b4je7d7wb]

I want to be able to install free apps from the Appstore without providing credit card details

[andsoitis]

What are some of the open source apps you use on your Android phone?

[smoldesu]

Glad you asked!

Florisboard is a nice minimalist alternative to GBoard. Offers decent theming and lots of settings for haptics/layout, makes a very quick/easy replacement on new devices.

NewPipe is a minimalist frontend to YouTube that lets you download videos and use PiP/background playing without paying for Premium (or logging into YouTube, for that matter)

Bromite offers a de-Googled Chromium experience for mobile users, pretty barebones and basic.

Glider is an awesome FOSS Hacker News client that I use for checking headlines on the go. Hugely recommended if you're an Android user!

The last big one I use is KeePassDX, which is a password manager integrated with the open KeePass standard. All my passwords get locked up in a nice encrypted, portable file I sync across my devices.

Now, I also use the Play Store for stuff like Discord and Spotify, and iOS users probably would still use the App Store if Cydia became officially supported overnight. That being said, having FOSS replacements for shitty defaults saves the modern Google-based Android experience for me. If they removed sideloading, I'd probably jump ship to a more minimalist fork.

[MichaelZuo]

It can't work unless Apple is allowed to sell phones without a warranty, which is illegal in most countries.

[krzyk]

EU will force them to open up. Just like with usbc.

[MichaelZuo]

It doesn't matter what the EU wants, it's not legally credible that a company can be forced to support a product with a warranty when the end user can modify it enough to brick it.

The courts would almost certainly rule against such a law, that forces both a warranty and openness, if challenged.