[laichzeit0]

I don’t understand this. Does race or does it not exist? If it does not, you should be able to put down any race when asked, since how can they prove it? If you said you’re black and walk in but clearly your skin tone is fairer than expected, do they have a color palette they hold up to your face and say “nope, sorry you’re too light to be black, or is there a generic test they force you to perform?

[csa]

> do they have a color palette they hold up to your face and say “nope, sorry you’re too light to be black, or is there a generic test they force you to perform?

It’s more of a sniff test that is only performed at elite schools or for privileged positions (affirmative action and/or scholarships).

I knew a woman who identified as black who was lily-white. It turns out her grandfather (in the south was black), and the locally scandalous out-of-wedlock interracial relationship that produced one of her parents was a big part of her identity and influenced what she studied. She ended up at an elite school.

On the other hand, if someone puts a race on the application that doesn’t really match how they look and doesn’t have much in the way of explanation in their application, then I think that interviewers at elite schools would (at a minimum) be curious. This is especially true if the race selected would likely get them some sort of preferred admissions status.

With regards to Asians in particular, many (most?) Asians can reasonably put down multi-racial since there has been much racial mixing within Asian over the past few millennia. Whether that jibes in a US elite college application is a different issue.

At most schools, unless race confers someone a special status like affirmative action or scholarship eligibility, then no one cares. If someone got in specifically due to an inaccurate claim, then they run the risk of being expelled or even having their degree revoked for unethical behavior.

[notch656a]

>then they run the risk of being expelled or even having their degree revoked for unethical behavior.

Have either of these actually happened? Someone put an 'innacurate' representation of their 'race' down and that happened? I'm trying to imagine how you could prove it. For instance, some theories hold that humans emigrated from sub-saharan Africa and thus most/all (even Americans) would be technically 'African-American' by some definition of the word.

It's my understanding that these forms request your self identified race thus there would be no wrong answer, you merely need to self identify for the second it takes to check the box.

[csa]

> Have either of these actually happened?

Yes, people have been expelled and had their degrees from elite schools revoked for unethical behavior (usually academic misconduct).

Has it happened for misrepresenting their race on their application? I have no idea, since I don't keep up with such things. I would imagine that this situation is handled much more subtly and much earlier in the process (e.g., by noting that race doesn't match appearance in the interview and/or content in application). Said another way, if someone is able to con their way into an elite school via lying about their race, my guess is that they dodged the most likely filter (the admissions process).

That said, there is a blurb in almost all applications that says that folks can have their admission rescinded etc etc if their application is not true to the best of their knowledge.

There is also a code of conduct that says something similar regarding ethical behavior.

I've seen some whacky stories about these clauses being invoked, so anything is possible. Need an example, do a search for "the water buffalo incident" that happened at one of these elite schools (ostensibly for racial harassment under the code of conduct).

[trieste92]

> With regards to Asians in particular, many (most?) Asians can reasonably put down multi-racial since there has been much racial mixing within Asian over the past few millennia. Whether that jibes in a US elite college application is a different issue.

By that exact same reasoning, couldn't literally anyone else do this? If we start blurring the definition, why does it conveniently stop there?

[csa]

> couldn't literally anyone else do this? If we start blurring the definition, why does it conveniently stop there?

Sure.

I don't think anyone is getting dinged or getting special affirmative action consideration for listing themselves as unspecified multi-racial.

If someone checks a box that gets them special affirmative action consideration, and it makes up no part of their application, and it doesn't pass the sniff test at the alumni interview, then a note will probably be made that race, appearances, and application do not appear consistent, and they will proceed from there.

The admissions officers are looking for a compelling narrative to admit the applicant. It's up to the applicant to provide that compelling narrative.

If I were advising someone who is multi-racial with an affirmative action twist while not really looking the part, I would recommend that they make a note of it in their application. Note that being part Black while appearing very White usually has some impact on shaping the person's identity.

For reference, I knew one person at an elite school who would introduce herself in icebreakers as "My name is $NAME, and I am Black"... and her skin was extremely pale white. She had a Black grandfather who had a scandalous affair with a White woman (when and where that was not apparently acceptable) to produce one of her parents. She told us stories about how that impacted her identity. I imagine she may have written a little bit about it in her one or more of her admissions essays.

[laichzeit0]

> If someone got in specifically due to an inaccurate claim, then they run the risk of being expelled or even having their degree revoked for unethical behavior.

This is actually what I’m asking. How do they measure your race? If you make the claim someone is driving under the influence, you have a defined blood alcohol level threshold and a way to test that. How do they do the same for race?

[csa]

> How do they measure your race?

Great question.

My guess is that they would only take action if you did something like brag on social media about hacking the admissions system by lying.

Stranger things have happened...

[googlryas]

Would they really? Was Elizabeth Warren punished by Harvard or UPenn for unethical behavior?

[iopq]

Apparently, she does have some Native American ancestry many many generations back, like a lot of Americans

[googlryas]

Well, if that is the case, then it would probably be hard to actually accuse the person of behaving unethically.

I'm extremely pasty white, blond hair, blue eyes, Norwegian last name. But 23 and me said that I have 0.1% North African ancestry, or 1 ancestor from ~1600 AD..so African American it is!

[csa]

> Would they really? Was Elizabeth Warren punished by Harvard or UPenn for unethical behavior?

Good question.

Just because they can doesn't mean they will.

As I said elsewhere, I think that the most likely filter for race bamboozlers is in the application process when the stated race and the combination of application, references, and alumni interview does not tell a coherent story.

Regarding Warren specifically, I will honestly say that I don't think race mattered very much for her. I know it's a meme in certain circles, but she applied in a very different era, one in which admissions standards were much lower. Being capable and ambitious was probably enough regardless of her race. I could be very wrong about her specific case, but I am certain that the Harvard and Penn of that era was nothing like the Harvard and Penn of today in terms of competitiveness of admissions.