[calvinmorrison]

Right, then I have to relearn my userspace setup... well maybe it's time - but I've been on debian longer long before I met my childs mother, before I even grew a single hair on my chest, before I had a bank account, a job, or a cell phone. But perhaps you are right, it's time to quit it

[UncleSlacky]

MX Linux (Debian-based, uses sysvinit with systemd shims) and Devuan would seem to be obvious alternatives that wouldn't require changes to your setup.

[calvinmorrison]

I'll check it out. I have all sorts of weirdness with this system. snap is great because debian doesn't package a lot, yet then all my snap programs are sandboxed in a non useful way. (like mysqlworkbench won't save passwords in a keystore because that hookup doesn't work - and it cant run without a working keystore. like firefox will start once, but if you run the firefox command, it'll error out that firefox is already) lots of annoying little things

[b112]

Debian runs without systemd fine, at least for me.

Try trinity as a desktop with sysvinit.

[calvinmorrison]

I am a big fan of trinity! I have it for the unbeatable KDE 3 konqueror and a few other choice apps.

[b112]

Yes, a well run / nice project. KDE3 seems far better than anything in the KDE or Gnome world since.

(I don't use kwin, but instead a different window manager, and only part of trinity for this and that, but that's not due to a lack of quality, I just prefer to mix and match.)