[mberning]

I think it will be organic. I’ve severely curtailed my discretionary spending. The restaurants suck now, bad service and low quality food for a high price. Bars are barely open during adult hours, many being closed at 8 or 9pm. Theaters, concerts, and sporting events seem to run on a skeleton crew of people that are clueless.

It’s time to walk the walk. Plenty of people have a doomer mindset about the future. Prepare now. Commit yourself to an ascetic lifestyle and you won’t be disappointed.

But I doubt many will voluntarily live this way. It’s just like everybody upset about the climate, but none of them have installed solar and geothermal on their home.

[cableshaft]

> It’s just like everybody upset about the climate, but none of them have installed solar and geothermal on their home.

Average cost of a residential geothermal system: $15k to $38k[1]

Average cost of solar panel roof: $11k to $14k after tax credits[2]

Also your roof shingles should be 10 years old or less before installation[3] (my roof shingles are definitely that old), so for a lot of people they'd have to replace their roof first, so tack on another $5.5k to $11k on top of that for many homes[4].

Total cost to meet your criteria: $26k to $62k.

I'd love for everyone to have solar panels and geothermal heat pumps, but I get why it hasn't happened very much yet. We need a lot more incentives (or major public/private infrastructure projects) to convert these more quickly.

(I realize there ads all over the internet for companies claiming they'll install solar panels for "free", but the BBB warns that those are often scams or can be more expensive for you in the long run[5]).

[1]: https://modernize.com/hvac/heating-repair-installation/heat-...

[2]: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/solar-energy/how-much-do-sol...

[3]: https://www.owenscorning.com/en-us/roofing/tools/solar-panel...

[4]: https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/roofing/roof-replace...

[5]: https://www.bbb.org/article/scams/27595-bbb-scam-alert-free-...

[jlokier]

To which I'll add that renters can't install those things even if they have the money, and people seem to be renting for more of their life than they used to.

There's no shortage of articles about people being priced out of ever owning a home. If true, they also won't be able to install solar panels or other environmentally beneficial home improvement technologies, which is bad for everyone. I've never heard of a landlord of a small proprty doing it, but surely some of them do.

[clay-dreidels]

Right. Since renters usually pay the electric bill, what incentive is there for landlords to help tenants save on utilities?

[mberning]

Considering how rough renters are on property there is never an incentive to make things nicer than they have to be. High density housing is never going to be a good candidate for solar anyway. Not enough surface area.

[jlokier]

Low density rented housing doesn't get things like solar either. In houses, even double glazing and windows that don't leak can't be counted on in my experience. I don't think I've ever lived anywhere as an adult that didn't have some things broken that I'd fix if I was allowed to (and would be fairly cheap to fix).

Some renters are rough on property, but many renters are not and look after the property the best they can, considering they are generally forbidden from doing any proper improvements or maintenance.

After all, many renters don't want to keep moving (and are not renting by choice), especially if they have children in school or a job nearby, so they have reason to look after the property they are in for as long as they can stay.

[mberning]

Which is exactly my point. It’s not cheap or easy to put your money where your mouth is. Talk is cheap. In the end, is $60k too much to ask to save the planet? People should stop being pretenders. If they really care about the climate, do something about it. If they think the world sucks and is going down the drain, do something about it.

[gruez]

> I think it will be organic. I’ve severely curtailed my discretionary spending. The restaurants suck now, bad service and low quality food for a high price. Bars are barely open during adult hours, many being closed at 8 or 9pm. Theaters, concerts, and sporting events seem to run on a skeleton crew of people that are clueless.

Given that we're in an economic downturn/recession, it's really hard to use what you said as evidence for degrowth, which implies some sort of long term phenomena rather than a 1-2 year thing.