[nlawalker]

Most of the grocery stores in my area have installed self-checkout systems that are especially great if you just have a handful of items that all have UPCs (no produce or bagged bulk), don't have any items requiring an age check and possess at least the intelligence of a fifth grader.

I mention this not just because it's relevant to the idea of waiting in line at a store, but because in every store where I've seen these systems installed, the entire bank of scanners has a single line, unlike the rest of the store. I imagine it's mostly because they place the self-check scanners so close together (because they can) that it doesn't make sense to try to form multiple lines, whereas a single queue system for the real checkers would take up a huge amount of space.

[georgemcbay]

Here in San Diego we've had self-checkout systems in most major stores for a few years now.

At first they were awesome because nobody used them, so you could zip right through and avoid the lines. But now, after they've been here for a few years, a lot more people feel comfortable using them but many of those people use them poorly and far too many people will use them even when they have an entire cart full of groceries. That's an entire cart full of stuff they have to scan without accidentally voiding the whole order (which I've seen happen multiple times), a lot of trial and error on trying to figure out how to scan their produce, etc, etc.

It has reached the point where I rarely bother with self checkout anymore unless there is absolutely no line for it because while the system works great when nobody else is using it, it doesn't scale that well because most people are terribly slow checkers relative to dedicated workers doing that job.

[electromagnetic]

I've seen similar things in my local store. They've finally upgraded to newer self-checkout machines, which means there's less hassle. The worst with the machines is them always telling you "please put the item in the bag" because it can't register a gravy packet and it keeps telling you until a worker overrides it. Then there's always the fuck ups where the item doesn't scan, you put it in a bag and have to pull it back out, and then it tells you "please put the item back in the bag" and won't let you scan it so you can.

The one problem with the theory described above is that most walmarts have a 6 cashier express with a single line, and besides 'rush hour' when the store is packed it's often faster to go to a till to get <10 items scanned. I've ran in before and been out in minutes by going through a regular cashier and avoiding the express because the single line holds the problem that people are stupid, don't pay attention or can't hear and hold up the line, then they have to unpack their cart.

Theory is great, but it's useless when you're stuck behind a bunch of old women who can't hear them being called and spend 20 minutes chatting with the cashier.

[jrockway]

Most of the grocery stores in my area have installed self-checkout systems that are especially great if you just have a handful of items that all have UPCs (no produce or bagged bulk), don't have any items requiring an age check and possess at least the intelligence of a fifth grader.

I love these, because I can be done in 10 seconds. The people in front of me in line to use these, however, are rarely able. It's actually faster to wait in the non-self-checkout line these days because the people in the self-checkout line use them so slowly.

[smackfu]

Around here, the grocery self-checkout works the same as the normal checkouts, mainly because they just replaced the normal ones in place.

(Also, self-checkouts suck. I bet their throughput is terrible compared to manned checkout lines. That teenage checkout girl is WAY better than I am at scanning stuff.)

[jff]

Ah, but you see, anyone who writes checks (hellooooo, slowdown!) and anyone who is scared of technology (I think the two groups overlap a lot) will go wait in another line. So at least at my store, the self-checkout lanes have a lot of young people buying one or two items and paying with credit cards, which works out to a pretty good speed. Occasionally you get somebody who sits and stares at each screen of instructions for a good 30 seconds, but in general it moves well.

[smackfu]

I guess it depends on the quality of the self-checkout system. At my Stop & Shop, there are four or six self-checkout lanes staffed by a single person (Go go union job elimination!) If you get through a purchase without running into "wait for attendant", sure it's fast. But if you do have to wait, because their fundamental distrust of the customers makes the system get many false positives for stealing, now you are in a secondary line of people waiting for the attendant, and the time for checkout is terrible.

[jff]

Wow, that sucks. My local store only ever does "wait for assistance" when you buy booze... and half the time the attendant will just gleefully press "ok" on his terminal without even checking my ID, so it goes even faster :)

Implementation details matter, I guess. (Pretend I made some interesting reference to Steve Jobs' managing style here)

[finnw]

In some stores if you scan alcohol the machine will freeze until the attendant turns the key.

In others, it flashes a light to alert the attendant. It allows you to carry on scanning, but the attendant must turn the key before you pay.

I just hope that isn't patented.

[tomkarlo]

Yup.. the system tends to bump into that mode any time it notices a disparity between the weight of the bag you're filling and the items you've scanned. I had that trigger last night because I brushed the top of my paper bag while scanning the next item.

The short term problem is that there's only one attendant and many customers run into problems with the process - I was stuck behind an elderly couple that couldn't figure out the card payment terminal. All I needed was for the attendant to press one button on her screen so I could keep scanning. If they're going to switch to these new systems they should at least use 2-3 attendants for a while until customers get used to them.

[neutronicus]

As much better as the teenage checkout girl is than I am at scanning, it's nothing compared to how much better she is at pricing produce.

[tomkarlo]

If they know what its. I've had a lot of checkouts turn into a game of "what's this vegetable." Or they just enter it as some other, more familiar vegetable.

[philwelch]

If it's one that costs less, you win.

[gwillen]

I found at my old grocery store that self-checkouts had much better throughput than real lines due to self-selection. People who have many items, or who have coupons / are paying by check / need special help, will avoid the self-checkouts.

[eiji]

Self-checkouts are not just about speed. They also appeal to specific kind of people.

I use them because I don't want to interact with someone just to get some groceries. I know, it's kind of sad, but I don't want to say 'Hi' and 'Thank you' and I don't want 5 bags when 2 would suffice and don't want to explain that, so I just do it myself.

[dextorious]

You must be very popular at parties.

(Let the downvoting begin)

[eiji]

Downvote for what? Bad character?

To design is shop is not about math or throughput, it's all about psychology. You don't want lines to move fast, you just want them to appear like moving fast.

My point is merely that self-checkout is not only about speed, it's about personal comfort too.

[dextorious]

"""Downvote for what? Bad character?"""

No, I was referring to me being down-voted, for my snarky comment.

"""My point is merely that self-checkout is not only about speed, it's about personal comfort too."""

Sure, could be, but the particular "irritations" you mentioned I see as belonging to persons too self-absorbed, being the very definition of "first-world problems" for the Monk types among us.

[yesimahuman]

In my experience, the slow down is the cost of the extra features of the self-checkout system running on (I'm guessing) weak hardware. There is a rather large delay when choosing payment sources or in between bagging items.

[philwelch]

Between bagging items, it has to wait for the scales underneath the bagging area to register a consistent weight. When choosing a payment source, it probably has to do a network call to the PIN-pad system. It's not like it's running on a slow CPU.

[yesimahuman]

Good point. At any rate, there is room for improvement, especially considering the normal checkout systems appear to perform more quickly.

[philwelch]

Because cashiers are trusted and customers aren't. There's still the delay during checkout, though.

[Muzza]

Self-checkouts don't have to suck, though. The version where you scan all your items at a single location is clearly crap, but there are systems where you get a small hand-held device when entering the store so you can scan your items as you go along.

[JadeNB]

> Self-checkouts don't have to suck, though. The version where you scan all your items at a single location is clearly crap, but there are systems where you get a small hand-held device when entering the store so you can scan your items as you go along.

This is presumably much better for throughput, but much worse for making sure that what you're leaving with is what you purchased. (Also, how does it accommodate a decision to put something back? I've never seen such a system.)

[Muzza]

> This is presumably much better for throughput, but much worse for making sure that what you're leaving with is what you purchased.

Admittedly, yes. But there are usually random checks.

> (Also, how does it accommodate a decision to put something back? I've never seen such a system.)

You press the "put back" button and scan the thing you want to put back.

[jacobr]

In stores in Sweden with self-scanning there are scales in the vegetable department that will print out an appropriate UPC for you to scan (with your hand-held scanner). People who don't self-scan are also recommended to use these to let the cashier avoid weighing all goods. You still have to contact a cashier for age-restricted merchandise such as beer and tobacco, though.

To self-scan you need to register with the store, and in the beginning you're manually checked a couple of times. They track how many errors you have and on what kind of merchandise, and determine how trust-worthy you are and how often you should be manually checked.

I can't remember if this was already implemented or just a suggestion from somewhere, but the self-scanning devices could track your location in the store, both to analyze customer behaviour but also to monitor any suspicious activity. If you spend 15 minutes in the electronics department without scanning anything, maybe that warrants a manual check.

As a side note, I wonder how much time self-scanning and self-checkout really saves in the end, for the consumer, and how much of it is just letting us do more unpaid labour under the impression of efficiency.

[ryusage]

The most interesting fact about the self-checkout systems, in my mind, is that they actually have no designated area or instructions for how lines should form. People just intuitively wait outside the general self-checkout area, and use the machines as they become available. So, at least in some circumstances, the single queue system obviously can make a lot of sense to people.

[nlawalker]

This is the interesting part to me as well, although I do have a couple of anecdotes:

- I have seen at least one store where a single sign is placed at the front of the full collection of scanners stating "line forms here" or something similar, regardless of how many there are or how they are arranged. - I have seen at least one case where, in a store that did not have the above sign, one line formed for each "vertical" bank of scanners. For example, in my local Safeway, there are six scanners: two rows of three each, lined up next to each other, parallel to the checkstands. It is pretty intuitive/obvious that they don't intend for people to line up at each individual unit in a single row, but often a queue will form for each row.

[notatoad]

what's interesting to me about the single queue that forms at the self checkouts is that there is no explicit instructions to do this. everybody intuitively lines up in a single queue, despite having lined up in separate queues their entire lives until the self checkouts were introduced. i'm sure none of them have read studies telling them that this is the most efficient method, they just do it. and every now and then somebody tries to start a second line and gets glared at.

[heliodor]

It seems to me to be a function of how the machines are spaced. People need a certain amount of personal space. The single line is the only way to provide it given how tightly the self-checkout machines are packed.