[MartinCron]

Holmes made one single promise on which she couldn't (possibly) deliver while Musk makes dozens of promises and delivers well enough on enough of them that he'll never be fully discredited.

The whole "stepping on a single nail vs. sleeping on a bed of nails" metaphor.

[ajross]

I'm having trouble following the metaphor. You seem to be saying that it's a... I guess "unfortunate coincidence" that Musk has had a handful of successful (well, outrageously successful) projects, because it makes exposing him as a fraud for the unsuccessful stuff difficult? But... isn't success the goal here and not punishing fraud?

Would the world really be a better place if we viewed every failure as disqualifying?

[groby_b]

That's not the question. The question is "would the world really be a better place if we viewed malicious lies as disqualifying", and I believe the answer is yes.

[ajross]

Which malicious lies are we talking about here? I'm still having trouble following.

The dude makes over-optimistic predictions and shitposts like crazy; we're hardly talking about Pol Pot here. The same personality holds for, what, 90% of Reddit? Maybe only 40% of the HN commenter base (we're cultured!). People hate Musk because Musk makes it so fun to hate him. And that's fine. But it leads to some pretty weird places if you let it (like "The world would be better off without Tesla or SpaceX" being discussed here).

[bhauer]

Musk-hatred as a pop ideology is certainly one of the weirder ones. It's a baffling hybrid of conspiracy theorist, self-serving gatekeeping of engineering licensure, not-invented here extremism, technology "realism," billionaire rage/envy, angry politics, and a need to feel superior to the engineers who work at the Musk companies. Altogether, not a look becoming someone who is on a web site devoted to technology and innovation.

Look, it's fine if you don't like the guy or his companies. But some of the ridiculous talking points listed elsewhere in this thread are unhinged.

[candiodari]

Talked to a number of engineers leaving Tesla and SpaceX. All complained about harsh working conditions and low pay supposedly made up for by "inspiring" mission.

And once that effect of the worthwhile mission wears off, people seem to run away. Not walk. Run.

In other words, I don't think "Musk-hatred" is an ideology.

Of course that means that Musk's contribution is in fact not so much different from your average business blowhard. "Inspiring". Musk is just better at it, although a significant portion of it is simply in the mission itself, not musk. His nerd look and talk is entirely manufactured and an act (it's fake, as opposed to Larry Page. His nerd act is not an act, a fact he spent millions trying to get away from)

Both companies were effectively started by engineers, not by Elon Musk. There are no real technical accomplishments that are his doing.

I would say he has a good bullshit filter ... but there's a hyperloop in there, along with the boring company. Ahem.

[YawningAngel]

I think the world would be a better place if Elon Musk didn't recklessly claim that currently extant Teslas will achieve full self-driving capability in any reasonable timeframe. Similarly, it would be wonderful if he didn't promote horse shit like the hyperloop and his boring company, possibly with the ulterior motive of undermining actual infrastructure projects

[knewter]

Now do California's high speed rail