[LawTalkingGuy]

> That assumes that you can't work hard from home, which I don't believe to be true.

Where's the analysis of the job to see if it can really be performed ideally remotely.

Also, "hard" is a straw man. As a boss I want output not effort and part of being near coworkers is to avoid getting stuck and wasting resources.

> where is the connection between investing yourself into your job and going in to the office

If I was your coworker or boss and I showed you that connection for the job in question would you admit it and come in?

[tdeck]

> Where's the analysis of the job to see if it can really be performed ideally remotely.

Where's the analysis that says it can't? If you want my ass in the office, shouldn't the burden of proof be on you?

[LawTalkingGuy]

It's not a burden of proof situation because your boss is paying the bill. But, if it was about who claimed what, the employees are the ones making the claim that "remote work is just as productive".

[6510]

The work is exchanged for the money. If either party has room to demand more it is because the other is in abundant supply.

[tdeck]

If it's about the boss's power, they can always just fire people who won't come into the office. If the boss doesn't want to do that, they've got to do the convincing. You either convince people or order them around and live with the morale consequences.

[LawTalkingGuy]

You're being paid so you can't claim to be outraged at being told to work. If your morale issues aren't handled by your salary then you should simply leave. Investigate contracting.

If you need convincing to return the the office you were hired to work in then you probably aren't the type of employee a boss would want to retain.

[tdeck]

> Your morale issues aren't handled by your salary then you should simply leave.

If you're a "manager", morale issues on the team are your issues. This is basic, obvious stuff; if the manager isn't comfortable thinking about these things, maybe they should leave their job?

Again, if you don't like the way an employee works, you can order them to change it. If they don't, you can fire them. But you seem to be under the impression that "I'm the boss" is some kind of rational or moral argument and that employees need to feel a certain way about following your orders and realize that you were right all along. "I'm not threatening, I'm just convincing you with the argument that I'm the boss".

[LawTalkingGuy]

> If you're a "manager", morale issues on the team are your issues.

If being told to do things that the company is paying you to do is triggering your morale issues then you probably aren't going to work out at all. If all you wanted was a few dollars more you'd have already asked that in a far simpler way.

When I get a coffee I don't check which one the barista wants to make, I assume they're willing to make anything on the menu because a job is a package deal.

> that employees need to feel a certain way about following your orders and realize that you were right all along

No, and in fact my point is that as your hypothetical boss I and the managers would have decided if we think WFH is working. Given that we already decided I'm not opening it up to you to debate and honestly I wouldn't believe you were arguing openly because you've got a huge motive to stay home and comfy.

The point of an office is to assemble a critical mass and if I'm trying to get everyone in and you aren't willing, you're basically deprecating yourself. As much as I may like you I'm not going to retain you because now I want a different style of work done than you want to do.

> you seem to be under the impression that "I'm the boss" is some kind of rational or moral argument

You're stuck on this idea like you have a right to have things discussed with you and to make everyone hold until you're happy that the situation centers you and you've been well heard. That's silly. You're like a landscaper and if I sell the house with the yard I'm letting you go.

It's not about disrespecting you because it's not about respecting you because it's not about you.

[scrumbledober]

sending a slack message saying "hey, i'm stuck" is really not that difficult.