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by nosianu 1346 days ago
Also just today:

BBC headline "Ex-UK pilots lured to help Chinese military, MoD says"

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63293582

With more background info: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/is-china-really-using-...

Some highlights from the BBC article:

> Former British military pilots are being lured to China with large sums of money to pass on their expertise to the Chinese military, it is claimed.

> Up to 30 former UK military pilots are thought to have gone to train members of China's People's Liberation Army.

> The retired British pilots are being used to help understand the way in which Western planes and pilots operate, information which could be vital in the event of any conflict, such as over Taiwan.

> "They are a very attractive body of people to then pass on that knowledge," a Western official said. "It's taking Western pilots of great experience to help develop Chinese military air force tactics and capabilities."

The disclaimer sentence

> There is no evidence that any pilots have broken the Official Secrets Act or that they have committed any crime.

is funny - how would they gather that evidence without confessions from the pilots involved or from the Chinese? Even if they don't tell them any secrets, there remains the fact that they train them at all. With the next big conflict where this might be used being Taiwan, where the West has already taken the opposite side.

From the second link:

> The MOD also said that the United Kingdom is only one of several Western countries whose aircrew (and likely other sources of military expertise) are currently being targeted in this way. No details were provided of other nations involved.

Personally, reading this, I think the news is getting more ridiculous by the day. I think this is much worse, I don't think Saudi Arabia is likely to end up as a direct adversary, and even if it did it would not matter much. But China...

6 comments

Saudi Arabia is not as worthy of an adversary as China but they still are a dangerous country to underestimate. They were possibly behind 9/11, after all: https://theintercept.com/2021/09/11/september-11-saudi-arabi... .
It's weird to me that it's legal for former military members of one country to be employed by another for any military purpose at all, without the express approval of the home country.
Here's a guess: it has been known to various counter-intelligence agencies around the world for a while, but only now someone decided to escalate just a tiny bit and clean up some of the mess. Can't say I don't like it, though I dislike the seemingly ongoing worldwide escalation in international relations.
>is funny - how would they gather that evidence without confessions from the pilots involved or from the Chinese?

MI6 is a thing. What do you think they do all day. You really think these people with classified info in their heads are just walking around blabbing secrets in China or Saudi or wherever?

That would be evidence they won't be able to use in court? It would be giving up on their sources at the least, even if they are not disclosed directly. I have my doubts in them being able to find out exactly which pilot gave the Chinese some specific piece of information. They would need a source that is part of the direct training, which I find a bit optimistic.
We have secret trials in the UK where the accused doesn't get to hear the evidence.

So classified evidence can be used and there is no danger of it leaking.

Of course, there is a danger of innocent people being convicted but that doesn't seem to bother MPs or the government or even the public.

>The disclaimer sentence

It's a manufacturing consent piece to setup this:

>Anyone working in the UK for “hostile” states like Russia and China who fails to register their role will face up to five years in jail, Suella Braverman will announce on Tuesday.

[0] https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/hostile-state-workers-...

With respect to Saudi's, a lot of Saudi of military is serviced/supported by Pakistanis who feeds info directly back to PRC. And TBH it wouldn't surprise me if PRC "lured" ex Japanese / Korean pilots for info as well.

> Anyone working in the UK for “hostile” states like Russia and China who fails to register their role will face up to five years in jail, Suella Braverman will announce on Tuesday.

This is exactly like Russian 'Foreign Agent' law introduced about 10 years ago. Should we be following in the footsteps of despotic regimes? If we have just declared that these regimes are morrally bankrupt, we should be doing the opposite?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_foreign_agent_law

I'm sure there are a lot of things Russia does that we shouldn't do the opposite of.
IMO this was introduced so UK security architecture is more in line with US/AU when it come to PRC as pre-req for getting piece of multibillion AUKUS nuclear sub deal.
The US leaking capability to SA is like China leaking capability to NK. When SA runs fully amok the US will be worse off than if it were just in conflict with a single opponent because alliances with garbage bring you into a 2 against 200 position that is almost entirely outside your control.