[credit_guy]

Well, they are free people, not slaves. If they want to take a job in the private sector, they should have the freedom to do it, including working for a sovereign state that is not an enemy. Of course, they have knowledge of classified stuff, but I'm sure there are protocols around that, and they are aware of it.

It would be more scandalous if they were to take jobs with Russia, or Iran. But Saudi Arable is a US ally, so what's the problem?

[basementcat]

This sort of thing isn’t all that unusual. John Paul Jones, whom many regard as the "father" of the United States Navy, served as a rear admiral for the Imperial Russian Navy after he retired from the US Navy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Jones

[edgefield]

Perhaps not unusual, but ethical? That’s a different matter. A former US general working for a theocratic, monarchy with a deeply concerning history on human rights raises some serious red flags in my mind.

[melling]

I often wonder how people can not understand the world in which we live?

Didn’t President of the United States just go to Saudi Arabia and ask them to produce more oil.

Have we not supplied them weapons for decades?

Does the world use 100 million barrels of oil a day?

Let’s go throw something on a famous painting and maybe that’ll stop.

Still waiting for the batteries and all the renewable energy to solve the problem.

In the meantime, it’s great that people can take the moral high ground for decades on end.

We’ve been trying to get off oil since the 1970’s. How’s that working out?

[todorus]

It isn't lack of understanding that is being expressed, it is a lack of acceptance. I think that is a good thing.

And even if you would percieve ignorance instead, it doesn't mean that they need snark targeted at them. Please respect the community guidelines of this comment section.

[edgefield]

I sleep well at night. How about you?

[saiya-jin]

You would be surprised how many sociopaths occupy higher echelons of any power structures, be it government, military, banking, or well anything. As per J. Peterson there is around 1:20 ratio of sociopaths:normal folks in general population. Sociopathy like all other similar things are a spectrum, but with certain age you will start noticing them everywhere where power is.

If its a trait mixed with above average intelligence, these people often climb careers like ladders, and getting to the general/admiral level involves tons of political games and quid pro quo played right for decade(s).

What I want to say with all this - you bet those folks sleep well at night. They've sent 18-year old to (almost) certain death from time to time. Don't expect everybody in the world to share your morals, however sad it may be.

[pjc50]

> We’ve been trying to get off oil since the 1970’s

Some have, but for most people and most countries it's simply far too cheap and convenient to not do that. Until there's an oil shock or a war. The oil money also pays for a lot of anti-renewables lobbying.

[kelnos]

I mean, consider that, right now, the US has a military presence in Saudi Arabia, and active US military members are under orders to help train Saudi Arabian military members.

These former US officers in question may have already been working "for" this theocratic monarchy before they retired from the US military. So I don't think it'd be much of a moral leap for them to continue to do so, at least in their own minds.

But sure, I certainly wouldn't work for SA in any capacity; the whole idea would feel gross to me. But I don't have the career baggage of a US military officer who may have been stationed in SA for years.

[raydiatian]

The fuck is ethical about anything the US military has done since 1945?

[Der_Einzige]

Iraq 1 was justified imho

[djbebs]

So justified they had to lie about babies in incubators to do it, right?

[Der_Einzige]

I'm sorry, I'm pretty sure you're talking about a max headroom episode...

[padraic7a]

It could be worse. He could be a US general working for a country with a deeply concerning history of human rights, a lingering racial apartheid problem, and a history of violating the independence and sovereignty of many other countries : the United States.

[boruto]

> a deeply concerning history on human rights raises some serious red flags in my mind.

Working for dictatorship is not worse than bombing innocent children in name of working for oldest democracy

[nl]

Saudi Arabia is officially an ally of the US.

[publicola1990]

Wasn't the Russian Empire also as such.

[hef19898]

Back the day Napoleon, from Corsica, actually whantedbto join the British Army before he settled to become an Artillery Officer in the French Army. The rest is, quite literally, history.

We don't live in the 19th century anymore so.

[basementcat]

Fidel Castro wanted to play for the Washington Senators baseball team but wasn’t signed due to an underwhelming tryout.

https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/fidel-castro-and-baseball/

[lern_too_spel]

TLDR; he didn't try out for the Senators. The story is a myth.

[neaden]

Do you have a citation for that? My understanding is he went to boarding school in France at the age of 9 and then directly entered the French military academy. The hero of his youth, Pasquale Paoli, was in exile in England for much of that time and so maybe he wanted to join him until the revolution happened and Napoleon no longer supported Corsican independence.

[sschueller]

I would not count of SA being an ally for ever. I find this highly inappropriate especially for someone with sich high rank. Very very dangerous territory that could end up with a treason charge.

[maxbond]

In the United States, the charge of treason only has meaning within the context of a declared war (due to it's specific definition within the constitution). Given that wars are no longer declared, I don't foresee even literal traitors being charged with treason until either a law is passed creating a different charge with different criteria, or Congress decides to check the Executive regarding the declaration of war. No reason to believe either are on the horizon; it's entirely possible no one will ever be charged with treason in the United States ever again.

[mjevans]

Non-competes should include compensation commensurate for the non-compete period. In the case of these individuals is the retirement package not sufficient to guard national secrets?

[mek6800d2]

Your comment reminds me of a scene in the Rolling Stones' Altamont Concert film: Keith Richards is hanging out of his dressing room door and he answers a queston, "Yeah, we sold out, but it was for the money so that's okay! (laughter)" From Keith Richards, it was funny. A retired general claiming the military did not provide enough incentive to guard national secrets would also be laughable, but in a different sense.

Unrelated to the topic of this discussion and elsewhere in the film, Mick Jagger answers another question, "Am I satisfied? Sexually, yes. Philosophically, no." (Working from hazy memories here -- I last saw the movie in the 1970s, I think.)

[aerostable_slug]

The security agreements they signed are sufficient to guard national secrets. It has nothing to do with whether they go to work for Raytheon, the Saudi Defense Ministry, or Goodwill in their retirement, their compensation packages, etc.

[MichaelZuo]

I'm not seeing how 'security agreements' can guard against them deciding to just stay in Saudi Arabia with the patronage of the princes.

[thrill]

Expatriates would still be subject to not disclosing national secrets. It's not like they're former second-rate steak salesmen.

[MichaelZuo]

Subject by whom? The Saudi Arabian government has their own agenda. And obviously the U.S. government cannot enforce laws or policies in Riyadh.

[dsfyu404ed]

Working for Raytheon vs working for KSA is like the difference between buying an index that has a bunch of AAPL and buying AAPL. You're "fractionally" working for KSA (and whoever else).

[marshray]

My dim understanding is that once you are enrolled in General- and Admiral-level security clearances, you are not quite free free to freelance your experience globally without significant limitations.

The key questions raised would seem to be: did they in fact obtain the required signoffs, and are the current requirements sufficient or do they need some adjustment?

[dsfyu404ed]

>did they in fact obtain the required signoffs,

You don't get official "signoff" when you're at that level. You get plausibly deniable permission with the understanding that the powers that be reserve the right to pull the rug out from under you should doing so be politically expedient.

[google234123]

The saudis are allies and we sell them many of our top weapon systems.

[unethical_ban]

It seems the ethics and wisdom of that is the debate.

[marshray]

Yes, and there are a lot of signoffs involved.

[europeanguy]

Saudi Arabia hasn't really been a us ally since about 2016 when Saudi Arabia tried dumping oil price to ruin the us shale industry. Ever since the USA has been preparing to strike back. Look up the NOPEC bill. It looks like the USA plan is to charge Saudi Arabia with manipulating oil prices (being a cartel is literally the stated goal of OPEC). SA knows this and they're aligning themselves with Russia and China (with whom they're ideologically closer anyway).

Also just a comment, the dichotomy "they are free not slaves" is entirely useless to this discussion. There are countless examples from elsewhere in society of where a person isn't a slave but still has constraints on how they can earn money.

[credit_guy]

> Saudi Arabia hasn't really been a us ally since

But then who has "really" been an ally since whenever? All sovereign nations have national interests, and they are not 100% allied with the US interests.

Still, in the case of Saudi Arabia, their most important security concern is Iran. And there, they are aligned with the US. Also, the US is the most important security partner of Israel, and, according to wikipedia [1], Saudi Arabia has quite a good working relationship with Israel

  reports have surfaced in recent years indicating extensive behind-the-scenes diplomatic, intelligence, and security cooperation between the two as part of a larger Arab-Israeli alliance against Iran (see Iran–Israel proxy conflict and Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict) and, more recently, Turkey under Erdoğan. At the same time, the Saudi relationship with the Palestinian National Authority is deteriorating. 

A former general working for Saudi Arabia is in no way traitorous. It absolutely makes sense, both in their personal interest, but also in the general US national interest.

Yes, I know about Kashogi. But those guys are not going there to tell MBS to kill more disidents. They are going there to give security advice. And that security advice will benefit the US, not hinder it, because it will result in a stronger ally, not a stronger enemy.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_re...

[europeanguy]

> But then who has "really" been an ally since whenever?

All I'm pointing out is that the relationship between US and SA is souring. Simple stuff. Who has "really" bla bla bla I don't know dude, I can't be bothered to fight over semantics.

[exhilaration]

Aren't there literally American military bases in Saudi Arabia? https://militarybases.com/overseas/saudi-arabia/ How much more allied can you get?

[europeanguy]

Like I said, this is a story in development now.

Yes, there are bases in SA, and the US has threatened to pull them out.

[1] https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/10/06/oil-dispute-p...

[2] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-democrats-slam-opec-cu...

[bigbacaloa]

Sure, no one has any responsibility for what his employer does or where the cash comes from. Mafia mentality has taken over the tech world apparently.

[yucky]

Russia and Iran weren't behind 9/11, Saudi Arabia (or at least key parts of the current ruling royal family) was.

[Guy2020]

Wow, I can't believe the "free market" argument is being used to justify top military leaders serving other countries. I guess we aren't a country anymore. Just one big (free) market.

Truly late stage capitalism here.