[revolutukr]

> The only difference here is that they were able to build an app to do all the tracking in plain sight. I'm sure governments in the US and Europe would love to be able to force all visitors to install a similar app.

Yet, we do not because unlike in Qatar, the UAE and other religious dictatorships, we are a democracy and we have the ability to change our government.

You can do better than whatbouatism.

[greendude29]

"It's okay when we commit the same immoral acts that authoritarians commit because we're a democracy"

American democracy commits heinous crimes across the world. Being a democracy doesn't absolve them of the moral degeneracy.

[themitigating]

He's right about the whataboutism though.

[greendude29]

Right on

[quetzthecoatl]

he is right, but raising whataboutism isn't an argument. It's absolutely valid to point out immoral doings of the very people who are doing the accusations. Otherwise, it's a race to make the accusations and the first one wins - everyone else is whataboutism. You can easily see who came up with the inane whatboutism - the one who did a whole lot of crimes in the past, and wants to judge others now for similar crimes.

[themitigating]

" It's absolutely valid to point out immoral doings of the very people who are doing the accusations."

What has this parent done that makes them ineligible to criticize others?

[quetzthecoatl]

not the parent, but the others who responded with "whataboutism". Holding one accountable to the same standards that he holds others accountable isn't wrong. I refuse to take anyone who raises the bogey of "whataboutism" seriously. It has the same validity as someone responding to an argument that it's wrong to make that argument at this time of the day.

[themitigating]

Whataboutism isn't pointing out a contradiction or hypocrisy.

It's a method of deflection.

"Whataboutism' is a rhetorical device that involves accusing others of offenses as a way of deflecting attention from one's own deeds."

[llanowarelves]

Yep. It's an inversion so that you're the bad guy for taking a look at the ledger you both (implicitly or explicitly) agreed to use.

Variations of:

"Hey can I get back that $50 I lent you? I always pay you back and thought we had a mutual understanding, what gives?"

"Nice whataboutism, quit trying to make it about me."

[themitigating]

You example doesn't make sense for this situation. It's between two people and things they did. However, The OP isn't the US government and hasn't committed war crimes (I assume).

Also your example isn't even whataboutism which is defined as "the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue."

What other accusation or difficult question is being raised in your example? It's person A asking for money he lent to person B back and pointing out what when person B lent him money he paid it back.

[llanowarelves]

Holding another group or person to the same/similar standard is often called "whataboutism" though. I will concede that that is probably misplaced (and malicious) application and not what was originally intended.

That's why claims of hypocrisy against the other party, backed up with examples of the same behavior in other situations from them instead of you, can be cheaply dismissed as "whataboutism".

[xboxnolifes]

decrying whataboutism is starting to just look like deflection. Calling out hypocrisy is not whataboutism.

[Ekaros]

It is. I could see point if the people from USA seriously cleaned their own house before attacking others. Anything else comes out just as malicious. Maybe they should start with privacy for everyone and getting rid of slavery...

[themitigating]

What if this person is 16 and can't vote. How is he responsible for the acts of the US government?

[Ekaros]

There is always the militias.

[themitigating]

It's not hypocrisy because the poster has never been the president of the United States, the person who authorizes military operations. I'm also going to go out on a limb an assume they haven't committed a war crime as soldier, commander, or any person who would be directly involved.

Whataboutism: "the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue"

Hypocrisy: "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

You can't be a hypocrite for something another person, group, or country has done. Even if you are a member of that grouping*. Notice how the definition clearly states "one's own behavior".

-----------------------------------------------

* I'm sure there's an exception here if you represent that group or control that group, like the CEO of a company or a spokesman. However just being a citizen of a country doesn't apply.*

[snehk]

There is no political party in the US that is against the rigorous collection of private information of people entering the country. Biometric data, social media account disclosure, excessive questioning by the TSA. You literally have no option to change any of this.

[dane-pgp]

> You literally have no option to change any of this.

I'm guessing you only figuratively mean literally. You have the option of starting your own party that does care about privacy (and then voting for yourself), and you have the option of "contributing to the election campaigns of" (i.e. bribing) politicians who will then vote for legislation you want.

More practically, you can campaign within an existing party (presumably the Democrats) for them to support electoral reform (e.g. RCV or Approval Voting, at least for state elections) so that new parties can emerge, and so that the existing parties become more reflective of the actual wishes of voters.

[truemotive]

Yes, I too enjoy my decision on a daily basis as to whether I prefer Pepsi or Coke.