[mschuster91]

Now if there were any replacement for DJI I'd be happy... their tech stack is weird AF (e.g. you can only view synchronized flightbooks on your DJI RC controller or on the phone if you're using the sticks-only controller but not on the website or the macOS/Windows companion app, the damn expensive DJI RC controller doesn't do HDMI/DP output, the controllers can't be re-used between drone generations, DJI Fly is only available for sideload on Android ...).

The #2 used to be GoPro with its Karma drone which is one hell of a beast of a drone, but they exited the market when it became clear that neither the US nor EU had any idea what they were doing regarding drone regulations (to this day the EU hasn't managed to publish the licenseable Standard Scenarios, there is exactly one drone model on the market that is classified under the new EU schema that will become mandatory Q1/23, obtaining permissions by individual restricted zones such as fire departments is a hot mess because no one there knows what to do, countries like Croatia theoretically ban camera drones without a completely intransparent special permit process...).

Now, in the EU you're pretty much stuck with DJI if you want to fly in residential areas, hobby built drones and cheap China-made knockoffs that fall under the toy directive. For stuff such as gimbals, there are again virtually only DJI's Ronin series and cheap China-made knockoffs.

Seriously the EU and US need to step up and establish or at least fund companies that can compete with DJI and other sanctioned entities. It's ridiculous that people have to choose between funding CCP associated organizations or cheap knockoffs that are riddled with quality issues, software bugs and license issues.

[magic_hamster]

DJI definitely got the jump on this market, and more annoyingly, they make pretty good products if not for the trust issues.

But nothing lasts forever.

[mschuster91]

Agreed, but my point is that without serious government funding and general intervention DJI are far too far ahead for European companies to catch up.

[magic_hamster]

Drones have an extensive use in defense industries and just because the west produces less consumer models doesn't mean the tech isn't there. It will take banning DJI for them to quickly see they're not as far ahead as you imagine. It will probably cost more to buy though.

[mschuster91]

The thing is, consumer drones are widespread and generate a lot of data. Not just about the general performance of the drone or AI (like Tesla does), but also about weather conditions such as wind, or population densities that are classified by the drone's AI. All of this can be fed into massive data warehouses for later analysis - and the more drones one has, the better the quality of the derived data. In turn, that data can be used by the military for all sorts of planning and general intel collection.

Given that DJI has 76% of the market, the largest competitor (shockingly Intel - no idea they made drones?!) has 4% and the rest barely hits ~3%, it's safe to assume that no competitor comes even close to DJI [1].

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254982/global-market-sh...

[nebula8804]

Looks like Intel sold their Drone business...to Elon Musk's brother. Interesting development although it seems like they were focused on providing light shows. Explains why we are seeing these light shows at Tesla unveiling events ha!

[mschuster91]

What the fuck, turns out to be true [1].

[1] https://dronedj.com/2022/07/06/intel-drone-light-show-musk/

[fisian]

There are competitors in EU and US: Skydio and Parrot are the first I can think of, although their products cost more and aren't as consumer focused.

[rlex]

Looks like parrot doesn't sell anafi anymore (only anafi ai which seems to be focused on enterprisey stuff), and skydio, while looking nice, is not foldable. So if you want compact photo/video quad for trips, your choice is pretty limited. Especially if you want to stay below 250g weight. There is Autel Robotics which produces quads similar to DJI, but it's also mainland China company.

[coldtea]

There many companies that make drones outside of China. The question about replacement was more about "as good" drones...

[germinalphrase]

“ Seriously the EU and US need to step up and establish or at least fund companies that can compete with DJI and other sanctioned entities.”

Establishing legible regulations, yes - but why should taxpayers fund drone companies? What is the public benefit in doing so?

[mschuster91]

> What is the public benefit in doing so?

At the moment, DJI's R&D is likely heavily subsidized by Chinese military funds. The result of that is that DJI can offer its products vastly cheaper than domestic (or allied nations') companies can.

Therefore, the public benefit of subsidies, tariffs and sanctions would be:

- not assisting China's military development by providing funds (from drone sales) and operational data from the drones. Even the flight logs provide immense amounts of real world data about the environment and the behavior - e.g. the Mini 3 Pro's camera based object tracking. That's crazy good AI at work there, gotta admit that.

- providing domestic and allied nations' companies with the opportunity to do business without being subject to Chinese price dumping, thus keeping wealth inside the allied space and outside of the CCPs cash reserves

- consumers have their privacy rights respected

[brokenmachine]

>consumers have their privacy rights respected

Haha, no.

[magic_hamster]

The public is already funding drone research, but it's all in defense and military.

[dannyw]

For the same reasons taxpayers fund semiconductor fabs (CHIPS Act): local supply chains for critical infrastructure.

[RobotToaster]

In an ideal world it would fund a non-profit to develop open source software and hardware for the good of all.

In reality it will just end up funding a contractor with good lobbyists.

[brewdad]

Taxpayers already fund them in the form of military spending. Now we need to encourage companies to trickle their decade old tech into the consumer space.

[varispeed]

The thing is companies in the EU can't use slave workers and there is no access to cheap resources that are mined without regulations and so on. But, big corporations are allowed to sidestep that by manufacturing in countries that don't care about that and so having huge competitive advantage over potential European manufacturers.

For some reason the EU is not seeking level playing field with China.

Opening tax payer funding for corporations willing to manufacture in the EU is an open season for corruption and display of hypocrisy.

[coldtea]

>The thing is companies in the EU can't use slave workers and there is no access to cheap resources that are mined without regulations and so on

Sure they can. In the 1940s they did it to several million people (a large part Jews). Up until the mid-20th century they stole resources and took advantage of human capital directly in occupied lands ("colonies"). Now they do it through outsourcing work to sweatshops, child mines, and such, in Asia, Africa, and so on. They also do whatever they can to keep those "unregulated mines" and cheap resources flowing, by by the traditional way of meddling in their ex-colonies, toppling governments, and so on.

[Ancapistani]

Autel is “on par” - better in some areas and lacking in others. They’re a Chinese company, though some of their higher-end stuff is assembled in the US. They don’t “phone home” like DJI and don’t restrict flight based on geolocation in the US.

[mschuster91]

> They don’t “phone home” like DJI and don’t restrict flight based on geolocation in the US.

The latter is actually a requirement in the EU starting Q1/23, simply because there have been way too many people without any clue about drone regulations causing danger to general and emergency aviation. It's a good idea when manufacturers step up to prevent their products from causing harm to others.