[bdbenton]

Here in the Southeastern United States, we have the world's largest biodiversity of freshwater fish and a vast amount of wetlands and unpolluted fresh water systems.

The region has been growing economically and companies like 3M have poisoned a major river with industrial pollution. Corporations like HP, Oracle, and other SV giants have moved to the South due to lower taxes, cost of living, fewer regulations, and looser labor laws.

Better environmental regulation is necessary to protect our lands and waters, all across the country and even the planet. Water is far more vital than money, and arable land feeds the world.

If the whole world is developing, environmental protections have to evolve alongside it. Big business will always push at the limit, and even sometimes cross the line with the consequence being a large fine and firing a few scapegoats.

It really is a struggle between the will of the people and corporate greed at its core. Short-term profits vs long-term survival of the human race. Declining fish populations upset ecosystems, communities, and food supply. These large entities are more focused on driving quarter-over-quarter revenue growth.

If you look at what's happening in Guam, it is has even become a matter of national security recognized by the military. Issues like these, as mentioned here elsewhere, are more important than saber rattling with China. These things get set on the backburner if fear and greed push us into another global war.

[ericmay]

> It really is a struggle between the will of the people and corporate greed at its core.

I always find it weird that people try to put these two things against each other when they are often one and the same. Nobody makes people in Alabama buy Ford F-150s, and people in California complain about high gas prices. New Yorkers want their iPhones shipped to their door from China overnight, and midwesterners want to go to the mountains and coasts quickly.

How corporations conduct themselves is similar to how governments conduct themselves. They’re beholding to the will of the people. The people demand their trucks and TVs and cheap steaks. Focusing on the services providing the goods and not those demanding said goods is a losing endeavor with respect to the environment. It’s not the greed of the corporations. It’s the greed of the people.

[bdbenton]

Corporations aren't democracies, they are government-regulated entities designed to turn a profit. Historically, working people have fought and even died en masse against corporate power in order secure the basic rights that we take for granted today.

If you can't see the struggle of power between working people, their communities, and their environments with corporate greed, I suggest reading up on the history of labor struggles or major criminal suits surrounding environmental regulation.

I used to work in marketing, corporations tell people what they want and they are very effective at it. If you think people are greedy for wanting things like a home they can afford or to not have their farmland and groundwater poisoned by fracking, then there is a serious disconnect with humanity as a whole.

That is really the defining characteristic of the ideology of the wealthy ruling class, total disconnect from the needs and realities of the everyday person in exchange for a desire to seek profit. Even worse is trying to shift the blame onto the victims of said irresponsible profit-seeking behavior.

Unless you are a member of that class, defending them or their ideology won't win you any brownie points. You can succeed in business without crossing these lines, but many people want more than just success and are willing to cross all the lines.

Things like child labor, regime changes, massive global tax evasion schemes, war profiteering, and destruction of natural resources are really indefensible, no matter how you try to twist it. If the government can't prevent these things on behalf of the people, then it has failed and needs replacing. That's my last word on the matter.

[ericmay]

> If you think people are greedy for wanting things like a home they can afford or to not have their farmland and groundwater poisoned by fracking, then

No I don’t think that. But then when their gas and heating bills go up now because we don’t have alternative infrastructure and these same people vote to have cheap gas due to fracking… I’m not really buying “wow these companies sure are screwing everyone”. In this case they’re simply giving people what they want which is what I expect in a functioning democratic market economy. Blaming the company undermines the issue.

Look at the outrage over paper straws or when grocery stores stop handing out plastic bags. Again, nobody is making anyone buy a huge truck to drive back and forth to an office job in.

Failing to also blame people who demand these things takes away their agency and leaves us with suboptimal solutions to environmental problems that we face. You’re confusing things like labor rights with consumerism here.

[hammock]

People are also government-regulated and looking to turn a profit.

Historically, working people have fought and even died en masse in order secure the power of many corporations that we take for granted today.

[andrekandre]

  > How corporations conduct themselves is similar to how governments conduct themselves. They’re beholding to the will of the people.

sort of... i think there is a part of the blame to be put on advertising/marketing departments as well... its not 100% one-way but more of a bad feedback loop kind of thing imo

(govts/companies wanna stay in power, find something that responds from the public, push it more, public responds with increased demand, repeat ad-infinitum)

[nocoolnametom]

The relationship is FAR more symbiotic, bordering on parasitic, than what you've described and I'm sure you know it. The job of the company is to fulfill a need (what you've described) OR, failing that, to CREATE a need and THEN fulfill it.

[switchbak]

The job of the company is to maximize profit, if that entails serving a need, it will do that, but it's not strictly necessary.

Often times it will also push to or past legal limits without any regard to the human cost, in this drive to maximize profit. Monopolies, child labour, environmental catastrophe, suppressing of worker rights and power.

To say that we deserve the treatment we get because we're greedy is pretty messed up. I don't know anyone who would choose to poison entire communities so we can have a cooking pan made of Teflon. Hell, Exxon put an anti knock additive (that was banned in the US) into Canadian gas for decades, knowing full well that it caused cancer.

Consumer greed doesn't account for the vast majority of the real evil done by large corporations, and I think that's a hell of a redirection of blame that the OP made.

[ericmay]

> Consumer greed doesn't account for the vast majority of the real evil done by large corporations, and I think that's a hell of a redirection of blame that the OP made.

It depends on what you mean by "real evil" here. But the mistake that's being made here is focusing on something like worker rights suppression when those same workers are buying F-150s for their day-to-day commute. I criticize both, however. I see many here who only criticize the former. That's a problem because we can't get to a full solution and we are also taking away agency from people to make choices.

At the end of the day the responsibility always rests on the people because corporations and the government exist and operate at the behest of the people. That doesn't absolve either entity of wrongdoing, of course, but so long as people continue to demand the lifestyle we all currently live businesses will naturally continue to create and sell the demanded products. Thinking that this wouldn't or shouldn't be the case in a market economy is too ideological and doesn't help us address pragmatic needs. Will you pay $25 for a pint of blueberries, travel by bus if you want to visit California from Florida, and only own one car per household? The vast majority of Americans at least would outright reject this, yet that's the reality we must face.

In some cases corporations actually lead the way as well. Paper straws and no longer providing plastic bags are areas where corporations have taken action in spite of consumer demand for plastic straws and plastic bags. I don't know how "real evil done by large corporations" is more impactful than tens of millions of Americans demanding our current lifestyle. There is certainly gray area here, but the discussion window is far, far too close to only talking about corporations.