[nalaz]

It’s interesting how much this depends on your bubble… most of the news I follow and people I know side with Russia or are at least extremely sceptic of nato/etc and from what I see everything is the opposite.

This war has taught me that even though there is only one truth to everything it’s impossible to know it unless you are there to see it with your eyes.

[allemagne]

I'm guessing you might be from a non-western country like India if there really isn't anyone around you who sides with Ukraine.

I'm curious about how a population across the political spectrum (i.e. not just marginal political ideologies) can justify siding with Russia in this situation.

I mean, is it really that Ukraine's intent to join NATO was provocative enough that Russia had no choice but to invade?

I'm only really curious to understand a potential non-western perspective here, not an argument.

[yucky]

Are you familiar with the Cuban Missile Crisis? Why on earth was the US so concerned about a defensive pact between Cuba and the Soviet Union? Surely that wasn't provocative enough to almost go to war over, was it?

[hdjjhhvvhga]

I live in the other bubble and yours always puzzles me. How do the folks in your bubble justify a full-scale war against Ukraine? Do you find their explanations convincing? So far the justifications I heard are pretty weak, like Russians in Eastern Ukraine felt threatened or were worried they wouldn't be able to speak Russian. Do you personally find any of these sensible reasons for invading another country and effectively killing thousands of people?

[pydry]

>yours always puzzles me. How do the folks in your bubble justify a full-scale war against Ukraine?

With stuff like the tacitly endorsed odessa trade unions massacre which our bubble ignores or downplays.

It puzzles me that you find it puzzling. How hard was it to talk Americans into waging a war of aggression on Iraq or Afghanistan?

[hdjjhhvvhga]

First, most people in the West were very much against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Especially before the Iraq war, we had the largest anti-war protests in modern Europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War

Not hundreds of thousands but millions went on the streets in major European streets. The invasion on Iraq was as bad as invasion on Ukraine, and it doesn't matter that Saddam was a cruel dictator killing his own people. There is absolutely no justification for that.

And history shows we were right: starting a war in Middle East doesn't bring peace but only more wars, and sometimes even evil we hadn't imagined like the ISIS. And I'm happy Americans finally left both countries, and they finally learned the hard lesson that this kind of aggression has only negative consequences.

[pydry]

I was one of those protestors.

I was just pointing out that if you know somebody who was pro invading Afghanistan (which in 2001 was like, 90%, so most people do) or Iraq you know somebody who would probably be pro-Ukraine war were they born Russian. It shouldnt be a mystery.

[nalaz]

I don’t side with either country, I don’t care about them personally. I see this war the same way I’ve always seen wars in the Middle East: who gives a shit.

I lament the incompetence of the eu in securing sources of energy for us, but I’ve always seen the eu as incompetent so this is hardly surprising.

[drekipus]

I find it hard to say who gives a shit when civilians are being bombed no matter by whom. Middle East or Ukraine.

[nalaz]

If I had to care about all the injustices and unnecessary pain in the world I would be unable to get out of bed. It’s sad but so is life.

[glogla]

Nice to see someone proud of being a monster.

[hdjjhhvvhga]

Yeah but you said most of the folks in your bubble side with Russia. So I'm curious what arguments people who support this cruel war have.

[nalaz]

Can’t really tell because I don’t pay much attention. It’s a proxy war between the us and Russia, the oblasts belong to Russia, Ukraine breached the Minsk treaty, Russia needs access to the sea to secure the country against the nato aggression, Ukraine massacres civilians… etc

Nothing justifies the dead civilians but I guess war is war, what are you going to do.

[helf]

It amazes me that apparently every war is just a “proxy war of the US vs INSERT COUNTRY”

Really? That “who gives a shit” attitude is extremely shortsighted, as well.

[glogla]

Indeed.

Now as Russia runs out of modern equipment and starts pulling WW2 lend lease things out of storage, the war in Ukraine will become US-US proxy war.

[yieldcrv]

what is the opposite?

the things you see are the opposite of what the Russia and nato skeptic side says?