[Tijdreiziger]

OK, now how do we solve it?

I’ve been thinking about this problem a lot. It seems to me you either go full send on the privacy front -> use FLOSS operating systems and self-host Nextcloud, or you want the comforts of modern apps and services -> buy into Apple’s or Google’s ecosystem.

There exists no option where you get to keep your privacy and enjoy modern technology.

[chaxor]

How is using good Linux based OSes and self hosted FOSS not "enjoying modern technology".

The systems are very nice honestly, because they give you much more control (e.g. windows vs Linux).

[Tijdreiziger]

Well, because using any popular service or app is right out?

Just looking at my own phone, payments, banking, planning transit rides, ordering cabs, keeping in touch with (online and offline) friends, streaming videos and music, gaming, ordering groceries, ordering takeout, translating documents, getting breaking news, taking (good) photos, and reporting vandalism to the city are all proprietary apps.

I don’t see a straightforward way to replace any of these with FOSS, and getting rid of them all would necessitate some serious concessions in my lifestyle.

[yjftsjthsd-h]

> Well, because using any popular service or app is right out?

> Just looking at my own phone, payments, banking, planning transit rides, ordering cabs, keeping in touch with (online and offline) friends, streaming videos and music, gaming, ordering groceries, ordering takeout, translating documents, getting breaking news, taking (good) photos, and reporting vandalism to the city are all proprietary apps.

Most if not all of those are websites that work fine in a perfectly normal browser on whatever operating system I care to use, in my experience.

[Tijdreiziger]

I know for certain that the services I depend on in at least half of those categories either don’t work in the browser, do work but don’t have full functionality, or are just the desktop version.

[Liquid_Fire]

Maybe it's different where you live, but for me from of the things you listed, the only one that would absolutely depend on a proprietary OS is keeping in touch with friends - because many use services such as WhatsApp that depend on having a phone with Google Play Services. And games where you usually have no choice.

Of the others, many depend on proprietary services, but pretty much all are accessible via their respective websites and I rarely see missing functionality.

payments - just use your card. You could even stick it in your phone case so you always have it if you have your phone

banking - there are some "app-only" banks where I live, but for every one there are 5 normal ones with websites

planning transit rides - all the ones I've used work in the browser

ordering cabs - around here they all have websites... or even phone numbers. Even Uber works via the website.

streaming videos and music - Spotify, YouTube, Twitch etc all work fine in a browser (in fact, on mobile they work better in a browser as you can block the ads!). If you want to host your own, there is Plex and similar.

gaming - most games won't work, but there are web-based and OSS games; Steam Deck could be an alternative

ordering groceries - around here they all have websites

ordering takeout - as above

translating documents - this one is weaker but there are several services that let you do this via the website

getting breaking news - if you really need to see them ASAP, use a site that has an RSS feed - they still exist! Might not work for local news though

taking (good) photos - plenty of OSS camera apps; using an actual camera could be an alternative

reporting vandalism to the city - must be specific to where you live; here everything is via web forms, and if there is an app it just wraps the website

[Tijdreiziger]

Yeah, so it’s as I said:

- some services don’t work (you already mentioned WhatsApp, there’s also others (Discord, FB Messenger) - maybe you can use them in the browser but it’s going to be a subpar experience)

- some have limited functionality (bank: works but you need to carry the physical 2FA device to log in instead of using your fingerprint; groceries: around here, the ones with websites have high order minimums and delivery fees; translating: camera translation (essential when travelling or living abroad) is only on the Google Translate app AFAIK; news: the national public broadcaster here doesn’t have a ‘breaking’ RSS feed, and apparently even the ‘all news’ feed is broken anyways)

- carrying around separate devices (camera etc.) brings us back to the original point: if you want to enjoy the niceties of modern devices, FOSS is going to be a compromise

[merely-unlikely]

I'd love Apple to build iCloud hosting via your home mac or a new version of the server they used to sell. That way all data sits on and is processed by a machine you control. Admittedly wishful thinking but I can dream.

[selectodude]

I wish I was smart enough to reverse engineer iCloud so I could self-host. This would, of course, also be a massive security flaw.