[fritztastic]

>Gage claims that Tipping wound up with three broken ribs, a lacerated liver, head injuries, and a broken neck. "His heart eventually stopped working because of his injuries" and "he was paralyzed….He had subdural hematomas at three places on the left side and three places on the right side. There is no way that grappling would have caused those injuries the way the LAPD portrayed it."

Sure sounds less like a simulation and more like an actual event.

It's really not easy to have someone die during an exercise with this many injuries caused by physical contact. Things like drownings, falls, and collisions can occur in a hugh risk training event- but this extent of injuries from falling on the ground seems real tough to spin as accidental or unintentional. At best you'd have to be extremely negligent, at worst this was a deliberate choice.

You'd really think someone would notice the person they're training with is actually hurt and stop to check in on them, presumably there are measures in place to pause the exercise which people are aware of before starting- were these ignored? I guess we'd have to have a discussion on the intent of the exercise and the extent to which force is used with no regard for safety during training, which is a whole other issue.

[philipov]

Eyyy, he just fell down the stairs. Don't worry about it!

[Brybry]

Broken ribs are common from CPR. They even mention it during CPR training (and they told us to keep going anyway).

I don't remember anything about liver lacerations but a quick google does say it happens: looks like the sternum can slice your liver during compressions[1] (warning: graphic).

No idea on head injuries or a broken neck from "grappling" though.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245224731...

[FireBeyond]

Paramedic: if you're getting CPR, you're dead already. Doesn't get worse.

It's not so much broken ribs (though those are possible), but separation from the sternum. Not pleasant, but not particularly problematic (people walk out of the hospital at times within 3-4 days of cardiac arrest as subsequent ROSC (return of spontaneous circulation) after CPR/defib.

And if you survive to ROSC, you're getting a stay in ICU as it is, where things like internal lacerations, aspiration can be treated.

[tmtvl]

Does grappling include throws? Because people have been killed practising Judo by messing up their falls.

[TomSwirly]

Hello! I studied Judo for years.

> Gage claims that Tipping wound up with three broken ribs, a lacerated liver, head injuries, and a broken neck. "His heart eventually stopped working because of his injuries" and "he was paralyzed….He had subdural hematomas at three places on the left side and three places on the right side. There is no way that grappling would have caused those injuries the way the LAPD portrayed it."

This is not a failed breakfall. Any questions?

[tmtvl]

I shall defer to your expertise, it does quite look like malicious intent cost the unfortunate officer his life. Hopefully his next of kin can receive the closure they deserve.

[lewdev]

Also trained in judo for many years. But I'm pretty sure you won't injure multiple areas in one "grappling" incident and if you break a rib, you would normally sit out the rest of the day.

When you're training injury does happen but not in more than one area of your body unless you were literally being beaten to a pulp.

So yes, I'm 100% sure it was a malicious intent if they're claiming that he died during "bicycle training" which oddly included grappling.

[BrandoElFollito]

Same here, but kung fu.

Despite protections and whatnot shit happens. Usually in one place, or in an unfortunate combination of two.

Being driven over, pushed through a window, crashed by a piano and drowning is not usual in one session. Looks like this is more or less what this guy had happening to him.