[behaveEc0n00]

Essentially the government is setting market values through mathematical indirection the general public cannot grasp.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33031466

Basically, fu Main Street, got mine. I wonder if they believe the meta-awareness the internet has provided will just go away if they crash tech/social media? That’s where all the progressive undesirables work, after all.

Past pols convinced people “trickle down” was sincere economics, not a bawdy joke. That Reaganomic funneling of wealth to the top was for their own good, and the public now blames modern progressives. A pols dedication to double speak is commendable.

[atdrummond]

Supply side economics has taken more people out of poverty than any kind of ISI or other internally focused development programmes. (I’ll also note I’m a far left person who believes there are many flaws with the global economic system but the raw facts don’t lie. Also, I’ve been poor and destitute unlike the majority of HN posters and understand how desultory and ineffective the majority of social programmes truly are - and this isn’t just an American perspective, as I’ve lived in nearly a dozen countries.)

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/can-free-trade-bring-... https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/poverty-reduction-res... https://www.flexport.com/blog/does-trade-reduce-poverty-an-a... https://www.piie.com/bookstore/trade-policy-and-global-pover...

[behaveEc0n00]

What’s this have to do with being ruled by rent seekers? They don’t have an absolute plan, but Powell has been projecting his goals for months; stop the rise of wages. Deflate asset prices. That sure sounds like a plan. A vague one, but a plan. Opioid addiction was an intentional plan given the evidence at various trials.

The economy and where possible, the outcomes, are intentional. Cushion “the right people” with free money so they can ride the long hard dip. Gamble with everyone else. It’s all part of the spoken traditions so we readily accept it. The lords of finance demand sacrifice!

[ElevenLathe]

Generally I agree that liberal-ish do-goodery interventions are basically hokum, but in the good old days when there was a real socialist project in the form of the Soviet Union, left economics also pulled huge numbers of people out of poverty. The Bolshevik program of "socialism in one country" turned the leftovers of the Tsarist empire, mainly a mass of peasants who had in living memory been serfs, into an industrialized powerhouse with a quite high standard of living.

I'm not a tankie or Stalin apologist but it shows what is possible within a planned economy.

[atdrummond]

Not sure I agree when we now know the majority of their economic statistics were hokum and the average second world worker earned basically 10%-25% of what a Western European or American worker did. https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/soviet-economy-1917-1991-its-...

[ElevenLathe]

Sure, (most) Russians made less than (most) Americans but they also importantly made more than workers in other parts of the world (the "third world") and even more importantly much much more than Russians were making in 1917. There is also probably a stability dividend at play here -- Soviet jobs were much more stable and so much more desirable even at the same level of pay.

[ztrww]

> much much more than Russians were making in 1917

Which is true almost anywhere in the world. Obviously Russia was several decades behind western Europe in 1917. But I’d be very surprised in if the gap between Western Europe and Russia in this regard was considerably higher in 1915 than it was in 1985.

> Soviet jobs were much more stable and so much more desirable even at the same level of pay.

What is this even supposed to mean? It was illegal to not have a job and most people couldn’t freely choose their workplace. Obviously certain positions which provided access to state resources were highly coveted despite only a moderate increase in pay (I don’t think I need to explain why). How is that in anyway something positive, though?

[ztrww]

Right, slave labor can be incredibly efficient in certain circumstances. Plantation owners in the southern states and the Caribbean had already proven that a hundred or more years before Stalin.

It’s not particularly surprising that if you literally work a few million to death and distribute the surplus they created amongst the rest of the population (the one innovation I’ll grant USSR) you can have some impressive growth figures. In fact the more people starve to death or die in the gulags the more per capita productivity increases.

> who had in living memory been serfs, into an industrialized powerhouse with a quite high standard of living.

Right. You can probably say the same about many states in Germany. Russia was just 40 or so years late. It not unreasonable to believe that it’s industrial output would had reached similar levels without the revolution in comparable timeframe (probably with considerably higher inequality but with a magnitude or two less murder, however higher inequality would probably meant that more people would have died from preventable diseases which would potentially offset a million or two who were executed).

[dsq]

Look up "holodomor", "dekulakization", "law of spikelets", and other lovely things. It's possible to get a lot done in a worker's paradise when you can put a bullet in a head.