[neoromantique]

>Is Ukraine worth the risk?

Ukraine isn't what's at stake here. Give in to Russia, and local conflicts will flare up all over the world, Russia escalating to Nuclear would definitely lead to WW3 one way or another, but I'd sure prefer it being World VS Russia instead of free for all that giving in to Russian agression will spark.

[blub]

First of all, it’s not Russia vs. the World, it’s Russia vs. NATO. India has literally said that Europe’s problems are not the world’s problems, China has been officially declared as an enemy of NATO. Africa has not forgotten the suffering at the hands of their former colonial masters. South America still remembers the coups they went through.

The only other countries in the world aligned with NATO are Australia, Japan and South Korea.

Secondly, conflicts are flaring around Russia because it’s weakened. This is a repeat of what happened after the fall of the USSR, with civil wars exploding in former satellites.

Thirdly, Ukraine is what’s at stake here. But NATO joined the war and now NATO’s reputation or whatever’s left of it is also at stake by own choice.

[ghostwriter]

why would an outcome in this conflict have a deciding factor in other conflicts that would be predicated on their own set of issues and would involve different kinds of people of different abilities with different agendas? This looks like an unneccessary generalization, as there's no way to tell if the same conflicts wouldn't flare up if Russia were peaceful.

[avmich]

> This looks like an unneccessary generalization

Just a straightforward projection from events of 2008-2014-2022 - Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine.

[blub]

Georgia is doing better than Ukraine and so is Crimea.

Surrender seems to be not as apocalyptic as claimed by those with an interest in getting NATO even more involved in this war.

[foverzar]

Each of these conflicts had American Military Industrial Complex money involved.

The Georgian one is especially curious in view of WikiLeaks evidence.

[type0]

It already happened: Budapest memorandum wasn't held, in the long run countries around the globe will seek to get nukes because only nuclear deterrence will work against a stronger attacker. If you allow one to blackmail others to get territories you are opening Pandoras box and others will repeat it if it shows to be a successful strategy.

[lakomen]

That is nonsense. When the US attacks other sovereign nations than it's a freedom fight that can't be televised, when someone else does it it's an evil act of aggression.

I'm tired of the double standards.

[avmich]

Yes, it's very tiring. If you're an American, use your vote to demand answers from leaders. If you live in a democracy, reach your politicians, bring the issue on the international level. If you're not in a democracy, work towards the ability to influence the better behavior - that is, work towards democracy.

[foverzar]

> If you live in a democracy, reach your politicians, bring the issue on the international level

So, has that ever worked? The US for example still has a law to invade Netherlands if even one of its military criminals is caught and brought to Hague to stand trial.

[avmich]

> So, has that ever worked?

Are you implying that democracy as a state model never worked, i.e. democratic process never brought improvements in areas like these?

[foverzar]

I am implying that countries with capable military that present themselves as "democratic" don't seem to fare substantially better in this matter.

In fact, the things that are considered ok for them to do are some of the worst examples.

Did democracy help Assange after he had uncovered the evidence of US' warcrimes? Were Bush era "no one will dare to hold the US accountable" laws repelled?

IMO, all it did is helped people "vent out" and "voice concerns" without any real and meaningful change in politics. This all lead us to a point where we see people profiting from war and taking a hypocritical moral high-ground at the same time.

Which in turn leads to that most outside observers don't even take "democratic" states seriously anymore in that matter.

[jacooper]

Ah yes, just like how the US attacked Iraq, Afghanistan and is supporting the apartheid occupation in Palestine.

But it's the US so it's OK.