[kaba0]

I always love seeing Brian Goetz’s articles, they explain the problem succinctly and they do a great job of validating their approach, showing the shortcomings of alternatives.

I especially like the language team’s very conservative attitude, valuing backwards compatibility greatly. Here, they again solve most of the problem by simply changing the “program launcher” code, without any modifications/special casing done on the language level. For the rest, we will see. I think foregoing public requirements is a no-brainer, the rest may need a bit further thought based on further comments, here is the mailing list: https://mail.openjdk.org/pipermail/amber-spec-observers/2022...

[RayVR]

Succinctly? You must be a Java programmer. This essay is at least 3-4x longer than I’d like.

As a (mostly) python and C++ programmer, Java feels like someone is afraid they’re speaking to an imbecile, so they constantly repeat themselves and over-explain every point.

[exabrial]

CDI and modern Java are both great, extraordinarily productive, run an order of magnitude faster than dynamic languages like python JavaScript and ruby, and are succinct compared to the mass of footprint of dynamic languages on a system. Your program runs at near c++ speed and does not need a gaggle of various system chances to run.

Jvm developers also take backwards compatibility seriously which is a concern for companies that will be around for more than a year or two.

While I reach for Python for one-off and random small stuff, the lack of types, it’s lack of performance, and the significant spacing make it challenging to share code and maintain.

Java certainly has its place and the changes in this article certainly expand its footprint.

[xwolfi]

Yeah and when you ask a question to your C++ colleague in that mysterious legacy team, not even on the language, you're convinced they think they're speaking to an imbecile.

C++ devs seem to live in a bubble of self admiration, spending hours over engineering under-performing applications they never profile - after all, profiling is like debugging: it's for people who cant code :p

[oriolid]

> over engineering under-performing applications they never profile

This is how you convince everyone they're speaking to an imbecile.

[pron]

Java has made progress in reducing unnecessary incantations, and it's not more verbose than C++. On the other hand, Java has probably been the most successful language in history in maintaining large codebases over years (although I guess some would say that's not a good thing).

[kubota]

As a java developer I would challenge you to a code golf session. You supply two problems which demonstrate the conciseness of your preferred language and I'll supply two problems which demonstrate the conciseness of Java. Then we'll see which language can implement solutions in the least amount of lines or semicolons.

[kaba0]

I prefer to use number of words, because I used to believe haskell and alia were shorter than a corresponding imperative program, but it turned out it just took up more horizontal space, and was roughly comparable in this metric.