[steerpike]

Coming to grips with the hidden influence of my own physicality has been a long term struggle for me. I realised over a long time that the fact that I was over six foot, male, white, bearded, broad and articulate meant that people inherently saw me as significantly more capable and tended to defer to me in a multitued of situations. This wasn't something that naturally gelled with the way I viewed my own competencies, but it's also really, really, really hard to get people to stop doing. Basically I have a significant 'self discrepancy gap'[0] between 'Own Actual' and 'Other Actual' that I constantly need to work at. Years of experience have taught me that these kind of gaps are pretty common in our industry.

Yes it exists and think it's incredibly important for people to be aware of the power of their own physicality and not to abuse it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discrepancy_theory

[cryptoanon]

Short guys have it extremely tough. No marginalized group would ever recognize the struggle of short guys. It’s a tough life, extremely tough to match, tough to get people to pay attention professionally (at first), and just tough to not make people subconsciously infantilize you (“Aw cute!” “Impressive!”).

I think the fact that most people would not seriously consider short guys as a marginalized group is proof itself of how marginalized it is. It’s hard not to be resigned to it. The biological marker that associates height with (physical and mental) fitness is just too strong.

At the end of the day, we are all blessed to have an opportunity on this mortal realm and we all have to move on and live life, but sometimes I wish that more people had the same empathy that you’re showing.

[iamacyborg]

While I sympathise with this struggle, as a 5'5 guy I don't feel like I've suffered from this all that much.

Certainly the shift to remote work and remote interviews has helped though.

[brandall10]

Same height/experience, though as someone in my mid 40s I feel like society has gotten worse about it, possibly because younger people are that much taller now. But for instance I was promoted to management in my early 30s.

I’ve mostly been remote for the past decade so it’s hard to quantify what things would be like now.

[ramblerman]

While this is true to an extent, remember (as with most victim complexes) that it very quickly becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[brandall10]

Right. The issue is more of first impressions... generally speaking, on a day to day basis, yeah, you feel it. This is going to be much more of an issue for someone for instance in sales.

Around people you spend time around it's pretty easy to lance that perception if you carry yourself w/ confidence, make good eye contact, say smart things, etc.

[giardini]

I'm tall but some of the best people in my life have been short. I do remember one boy in school who was short and I think his combative nature was a result of how others treated him and his interpretation of that. He had a hard time.

My shoulder doctor is short but a godsend for diagnosing and fixing my shoulders worn out from bad swimming habits.

I don't quite get the "physical fitness" thing b/c someone who is short can be in excellent shape. On measures of sheer mass and strength such as football, bench press or reach (e.g., basketball) perhaps they don't score as high. But for example, the short guys can usually run your ass off, come back and laugh at you while you can barely breathe. So there are sports where they excel.

We had a short guy in high school who could play basketball like Bob Cousy: he could beat the opposing team almost by himself! He was unbelievable. But his dad wanted him to help run his service station so we just had him for a few games.

Honestly, it seems that men get more of their problems from social aspects of their fathers than they do from their physical aspects (e.g.,physique).

[Tepix]

When you're short, perhaps you should get into sailing: You can buy a much cheaper boat! When you're 190+cm (~6'3"+) most boats under 33 feet or so will not have enough headroom. At the same time, longer boats get exponentially more expensive.

[someweirdperson]

Physical size and mass are helpful to keep the boat upright in strong winds. Just need to duck a bit more to not get hit by the boom.

I never thought of sailing as the perfect hobby for short people, except in boring weather conditions.

Maybe headroom for sleeping, not actually sailing as a sport?

[Tepix]

I was thinking about keel yachts where you want to stand in the galley while cooking for example.

[eurasiantiger]

Are you in a manager position? Honest question.

[sshine]

> When you're short, perhaps you should get into sailing

What if you're only short on some weekdays; do you time-share a boat?

[krageon]

As a short person, it is a small disadvantage but not impossible to overcome with significant force of personality and fitness. As disgusting as it is, it is not unreasonable to look at yourself compensating in this way and realising that everyone has something to fix. Very few people are born perfect, and even if they are that doesn't help you get where you want to be.

[sph]

> not impossible to overcome with significant force of personality and fitness

Definitely, but you're hand waving how hard that is (not that I would know, being a tall white person like OP). It's like saying "just be funny."

[krageon]

I'm not hand waving it, I literally did it. It is not easy but also not some terrifying abyss. I think in such scenarios it doesn't help people to present this as a really big problem, they are helped with the reality: It is something to do if you want to do it. If you do want to, you can. It doesn't require a significant lifestyle change, just regular exercise time (even once a week makes a big difference in most people). It's effort and it's not fair, but it is eminently available to almost everyone.

Edit: I'm sorry, I glossed over the "force of personality" part. This might take you a few years to get right, but since it boils down to "be more assertive" the only way to get better is to consciously work at doing it. It is the same as building any other habit.

[Bakary]

Well either you overcome it or you don't. Focusing on how hard it is doesn't move the needle. Even getting people to acknowledge your struggle does nothing.

[krageon]

Pointing it out / getting people to acknowledge it actually does the opposite: Folks will focus on your perceived shortcoming more and most of them won't turn that into constructive change. In effect you're just making it worse.

[gorilla0]

Agree, I have been in the industry for long enough to see that they are discriminated against. One thing which can counter the effect of height is humour - people who are funny and extrovert can get over this to a large extent (I guess this goes not only for professional relationships but personal ones too).

[strikelaserclaw]

a lot of short people at the top, you just gotta be more assertive where as for tall guys, people give a little bit of deference automatically.

[nathan_compton]

I wouldn't say no one thinks about this issue, but I agree its typically dismissed as not serious.

I think society thinks its important to socialize men in particular to "listen to authority without complaining" and this not-so-subtly tells certain men that if people don't treat you with respect then its your problem, not theirs.

One thing I hate about the contemporary American political landscape is that its all in on the false dichotomy between personal responsibility and a well conceived society. Both things can coexist and in fact require one another.

In fact, even though republicans love to talk about "personal responsibility," in a free market it is one of the least required things: the market tells you what to do with yourself on pain of penury. Its really in a society where conventions like social welfware can be abused where people's personal responsibility, character and civic virtues really matter.

[Thorentis]

> the market tells you what to do with yourself on pain of penury

The market isnt some ethereal thing that magically coerces people to do things. The market is made up of other people, all of whom are also exercising their personal responsibility to look after their self interests. Game theory is the best way to look at this.

[annyeonghada]

Incredible that the same thing could be said with lots of perceived "inequality" but in such case "systemic forces" are the cause and personal responsibility is to be avoided.

[dazzawazza]

You pretty much describe me. Except I am very confident, have over 35 years of software engineering experience and am touching upon 50 years old. I recently joined a very large games company with a great reputation for diversity, inclusion and all that jazz. I was very happy.

I've been successful in my career (I think) because I've (often) used my physical presence and all the advantages it gives me to give the floor to quieter voices, marginalized opinions and I really feel like my teams have been great teams because of that. When you enable great people, great things happen. I was looking forward to that just being the norm.

However, at this company I found myself marginalized and discriminated against. I think because of my age, maybe because of my social class or maybe because of all the accidental advantages I have. I don't know and I don't really care.

Anyway I left them.

So it can swing both ways, just enjoy the ride. Good luck.

[causi]

Yes, we're in an interesting time where the advantages you have in person are disadvantages on paper, in regards to hiring priorities, diversity drives, HR policy, etc.

[throwaway9980]

I share a lot of these characteristics and while I don’t think I’ve actually been discriminated against, internally I feel like it’s inevitable and it makes me incredibly self conscious. More than anything I just want to be invisible. Remote work is pretty helpful in this regard.

[eigart]

I have those same physical traits, and this comment was helpful. This has been really frustrating as a junior developer, it's just impossible to get any critical feedback or have someone take a mentorship role. I've been in so many dumb situations where someone more experienced or knowledgeable should have just told me I was doing something dumb.

I am certain it is a net positive without trying to abuse it, but I've been thinking about it a lot since graduating. Everyone just treats me really well and places a lot of completely unwarranted trust in me.

[jan_Inkepa]

>This has been really frustrating as a junior developer, it's just impossible to get any critical feedback or have someone take a mentorship role.

I've had a situation where I was asking a tall/attractive/charismatic acquaintance for technical advice and he stoped me and said something like "Why are you asking me for advice, you are way more experienced than I am". It's not that I shouldn't have talked with him about the technical matter, just that it was funny that I slid so naturally into the 'underling' role.

[giardini]

segue into something like "Well, I really need another look, another perspective, someone else's eyes on this b/c I think I'm missing something here, and I knew you'd be a good person to ask. I value your input."

And a warning: in your situation you may not know if "you are way more experienced" than he is (he may just be stroking your ego to divert you). I've been in the same situation where time revealed the other guy was hoarding information to his advantage. I talked him into a bit of a reveal.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

Does remote work in this case?

[giardini]

One tall man's story: IIRC he had been a football player in college. He loved sales but found his size was a problem. He came up with a ruse: upon entering an office where he sensed the target customer was uneasy with the salesman's size, he "took a dive" - he literally fell down! Chaos would ensue as everyone rushed to help: gather his glasses, dust him off, retrieve pen and briefcase and such. He would apologize for his clumsiness and somehow the incident would always cement the bond between him and his customer.

[silveroriole]

Please use your powers to support and amplify others if you can. I have the opposite experience where I’ve dropped out of multiple lead roles because getting anyone to listen to me or acknowledge my decisions required a huge battle every single time. (Then I leave and they hire a consultant who looks like you to tell them the same things…!)

[lettergram]

Working remote via video chat must the great equalizer haha…

In reality I think people working remote haven’t worse off.

While I think height does play a role, as a slightly below average height male I’ve personally never had an issue dominating / being defaulted to after brief interactions.

While this trend / tendency does exist and imo is extremely strong genetically (looking to the “alpha”), a few words can shake that tendency in most rooms.

I think being better groomed, fit, etc probably plays an overall larger role in terms of projecting competence.

Being confident and speaking with conviction in statements likely outweighs everything

[Traubenfuchs]

Own it and be thankful for the gifts you were given.

I just wonder where we were today without those favorable attributes?

[0xRusty]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effec...