[Shared404]

> and the illegalization of even benign therapy.

Conversion therapy is not benign. Your phrasing here leads me to suspect that the personal connections you refer to are people who learned that it is easier to lie to those they know, and sometimes even themselves, than to take other options.

I hope for their sake that I am wrong.

[powerslacker]

Not all conversion therapy is benign. If you are talking about using shock therapy then we are in agreement. That's not really what I'm talking about. Counseling could be an example of benign therapy - depending on the context.

And yes, you are wrong.

[Shared404]

> Counseling could be an example of benign therapy

Even counseling based conversion therapy is not benign. It would get your license revoked as a therapist in most places (in the US, not familiar with other places) well before it was illegal. The problem with counseling based conversion therapy is it relies on guilt and manipulation of the person involved.

> And yes, you are wrong.

I'm afraid that you are one of the people they would be lying to in this case, and thus I cannot take your word on this. To be clear, this is not an indictment of you, just based on what I have seen of similar situations in my life.

For context - I am an LGTBQ+ member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who has spoken and worked with lot's of cishet and lgbt people from my church and others. If you want to discuss more directly, my email is open, though I'm not always able to respond quickly. I also get a lot of spam at that address, so if you email please let me know here as well.

Edit: If you would prefer to discuss here so that the discussion stays public, I am also open to that. I know people who prefer either way.

[powerslacker]

Happy to talk with you outside of HN. I used to be LDS and so was my wife. I'll send you an email.

[powerslacker]

Sent you an email.

[Shared404]

Just checked - I don't appear to have received the email.

It's possible the spam filter ate it, though I didn't find it in my Junk folder. You can send it to evan@ the same domain if it turns out that that is the case.

Also - this is an open invitation. Anyone who wishes to discuss this from any perspective (or honestly anything interesting) is welcome to send me a message.

[trasz]

“Counseling” you mention, being a way to brainwash the “patient” into hating themselves more efficiently, is also harmful.

[lcnPylGDnU4H9OF]

> And yes, you are wrong.

Could you elaborate on this? How can you be certain that your personal acquaintances have not simply convinced themselves of something that is contradictory to their lived experience? It seems to me that social pressures could be very impactful to that end.

Your language conveys certainty, which is why I ask about that.

[powerslacker]

Sorry, but I will not elaborate.