[rreyes1979]

More so, my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle. Less than 24 hours later, her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle as the one my daughter was playing with. So it's not just terms but images too.

[planb]

She probably gave Instagram access to her photo library (not unreasonable for a photo sharing app). That means the Instagram app can scan her latest pictures in the background when it's opened. I think it's more likely that the data was leaked this way.

[snowwrestler]

In case folks don’t know this: on an iPhone you do not need to give an app access to all your photos in order to use photos in the app.

Under Privacy > Photos, you can set “Selected Photos” instead of “All Photos” on a per-app basis.

Then when you go to add a photo to the app, you first go through an iOS prompt to select the photos the app will have access to. Only then do you go through the app’s photo selection dialogue.

I have all my apps set this way (or “None”).

[nailer]

I just did this and the UI is weird and confusing - it looks like I need to statically pick photos in the settings app, which obviously won’t work for day to day use every time I take a photo and want to publish it to instagram.

Not saying it doesn’t work like you say, just saying it doesn’t look like it does.

[bombcar]

At least for Telegram each time you go to pick a photo to share, it offers you the chance to "add more photos visible" or you can click Manage.

I assume Instagram and friends would do the same.

I often just take the photo via Telegram instead, which automatically adds it to your photo roll and gives Telegram access to it. It works relatively well.

[snowwrestler]

You can just hit “done” in the settings app and it will close (with no photos selected).

Then on Instagram (for example) when you go to post, you’ll get a message like “you’ve only let Instagram have partial access to your photos - Manage”. Tapping Manage will let you select photos that Instagram can access.

[wil421]

Glad I deleted my Meta apps and only use online FB when I need to.

The other day I noticed the yahoo mail app on iOS was reading my clipboard for no reason. I’m going to start blocking photos on most of my apps.

[Melatonic]

Instagram is especially malicious with this - it is the only app that REQUIRES access to my microphone for me to post something. They try to do this by having a camera inside instagram (that you can record with which would obviously require mic access) but even to post stuff I have already taken (even just photos) it wants mic access. I usually temporarily give it what it wants, post, then remove again.

[paavohtl]

Is this something that actually happens (= can anyone prove this by disassembling the app or MITMing the network traffic), or is it just unfounded paranoia?

[mid-kid]

Considering how easy it is to implement these things without anyone noticing since it's closed source, you have to assume it is happening in any scenario where you need any decent opsec. Even in scenarios where you don't, there's been enough cases of similar things happening with well-known apps and services to be wary.

[titaniczero]

> Considering how easy it is to implement these things without anyone noticing since it's closed source

You can reverse engineer those things and analyze your network traffic. You can’t have a client in a device controlled by the user, in this case an app, send anything to a server without anyone noticing it.

And frankly, they don’t even need it. Just with your contacts they can link you to your friends and common interests without even you having a facebook account, all you need is friends with a fb/ig account who have linked their accounts to their phones and use whatsapp.

The contacts are known to be sent to the server, they are known to be linked to facebook except in the european union where there is a different app from WhatsApp Ireland and a different privacy policy that specifically states (in the version outside of EU) that it shares your contacts with facebook and they are much more valuable and much less risky than reading your messages.

[mid-kid]

> You can reverse engineer those things and analyze your network traffic.

I frankly don't think people realize how much obfuscation of both app code and network traffic goes on under the hood. "analyzing network traffic" isn't a sustainable option when things are encrypted and behind dozens of layers of protobuf, websockets and other fancy protocols, and get updated and change around all the time. Far from everything is introspectable http, javascript and json these days, and that applies espeically to big apps like these. It's not hard to send privacy-sensitive data along with "legitimate" data like analytics at unexpected times and evade scrutiny.

Yes there's people that dedicate themselves to reverse engineering apps like this, but they're few and far between, and most of them focus on either the easy fish, or security vulns. Considering nobody's building public documentation on the protocols of these apps I'll have to assume it's hard enough and changes often enough to be worth the time of people without special monetary interests.

I agree with the rest of your assessment, there's way less "obviously malicious" ways to exfiltrate data about users than literally uploading users' pictures, since for example whatsapp stored unencrypted backups on google drive until very recently, among other things. I'm just trying to shed a light on the fact that apps like this have a lot of ways to accomplish this without raising too many eyebrows.

[dvtkrlbs]

It shoukd be easy to test since Ios has a feature called app privacy report that lists networks and permission access and no when you just open the instagram app it does not access photos. Only when you open add to story page or click on the new post icon it does the access.

[planb]

Thanks for making me aware of this! You're right!

[Shish2k]

> Considering how easy it is to implement these things without anyone noticing since it's closed source

I see you’ve never heard of Jane Manchun Wong...

[campital]

I imagine the reputational and potential legal consequences would be fairly severe if this sort of privacy invasion were discovered (either by employee leak or reverse engineering). Seems unlikely Meta would take a risk like this.

[nerdponx]

Back when deep learning was first hitting "mainstream" for object recognition in images, I recall reading that Facebook was using it to look for brand logos and other signs of using a particular product, in your uploaded photos.

Turns out they were also building a database of everyone's face so they could build shadow profiles...

[whywhywhywhy]

How did she buy the puzzle to begin with.

[lm28469]

> my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle.

> her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle

How did she take the pic ?

[giarc]

I think that's an important question. Did user take the photo within the app, thereby skipping the camera roll, or did they take the photo, then upload to WhatsApp from camera roll. If the latter than as someone else said, could be that Instagram had access to camera roll and decided to serve ads based upon the puzzle.