[sbaiddn]

Abundance doesnt mean its easy or clean to mine. Al is one the most abundant elements in the Earth's crust, but extracting it is brutally destructive.

Now, you can say the same thing for oil. Sure. But EVs are bad for the environment and its not obvious they're even a net good.

[shiftpgdn]

Destructive extraction of lithium is completely a myth. There is currently enough lithium in Texas oil wells that were capped because they were full of salt water that’s easily extracted and evap pooled to satisfy global lithium demand for 100 years.

[sbaiddn]

Im skeptical, so Ill need a reference, but consider:

- You're commenting on a thread about a collapsing water table due to Li extraction.

- Li's price has risen and projected to continue to do so for quite some time.

- You post that Li extraction is cheap, clean and widely available in TX (perhaps the most covetous state of the Union?). Money is literally in a capped oil well and Texans are too lazy to pick it up.

Perhaps Li isn't as easy and clean to extract as you were led to believe?

[simondotau]

The limiting factor on lithium isn't raw material availability or extraction, it's refinement. Approximately 80% of the world's lithium refinery capacity is located in China. Nobody is refining lithium at scale in North America, so I'd say it's obvious why nobody's rushing to pay American-level salaries to suck it out of wells in Texas.

Tesla has expressed interest in developing a lithium refinery in Texas, so we might see some hoses drinking from those old wells soon enough.

[shiftpgdn]

https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/piedmont-lithium-cho...

Brine has to be pumped to evap pools and then refined.

[TrapLord_Rhodo]

From your article.

>Piedmont Lithium .. will establish a lithium hydroxide processing, refining and manufacturing facility in Southeast Tennessee

I don't think Piedmont is getting into the ore, or brine extraction. They are processing the salts into hydroxide.

Funny enough, soon after this announcement, elon announced his intention to do the same with Tesla.

[scythe]

We extract way, way more aluminum than we ever will — or could — lithium. Annual aluminum production is about 64 million tons. Total lithium resources — the sum of all known economically viable deposits — are 86 million tons.

>its not obvious they're even a net good.

It is extremely obvious. Even if the relevant region of the Andes is completely desertified (which I would prefer not happen) the scale of impact is a pittance next to global warming.

[wiredfool]

That's about the numbers that I've seen - https://climateminerals.org/data-snapshot/lithium (disclaimer, I worked on this app)

For the most part, Countries are currently mining/producing about 1% of their reserves per year (roughly), and that's a fraction of the resources (which is the 86 MT number).

From the data though -- Reserves seem to be climbing over time, so while there is a dramatic uptick in lithium mining, it doesn't seem like we've hit peak reserve/resources yet.

[sbaiddn]

"Even if the relevant region of the Andes is completely desertified (which I would prefer not happen)"

My dad comes from that region so I really appreciate that you'd rather the area not become a desert just so some SV bro can virtue signal with a Tesla.

Personally, Id rather Californians used their own water to extract their own Li to power their own Teslas.

As to the obviousness of the net good, actually it isn't. Thats why studies are done. Even if it's a net environmental benefit (comparing different types of pollution is a massive value judgement, btw) it doesn't follow its ethically a benefit for the reason outlines above - why should by father's family become environmental refugees?

[scythe]

>As to the obviousness of the net good, actually it isn't.

You're comparing losing a small part of the Andes to half the Mediterranean basin (desertification), a third of the Amazon, the whole world's coastline below 2 meters AMSL, and we don't even know what to expect from the effects of heat stress on wildlife, but we can expect it to kill plenty of people directly. And that's just what I can fit in a sentence.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-what-climate-models-te...

Damage to the environment of the subtropical Andes is probably avoidable and should be avoided. There are other ways to get lithium. There are also alternatives to evaporation ponds that could let you put water back in the ground. But it's annoying when everyone thinks their pet issue is as important as the worst environmental threat humanity has faced in recorded history.