Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by Laaas 1363 days ago
An OS built on top of WASM can provide modern features without the bloat of current CPUs, e.g. MMUs.
3 comments

Not if you care about side channels. There really aren't any good solutions here that let you safely run untrusted code in a shared address space. Yes, you can slap barriers behind every single branch and after every single store (memory ordering violations can cause mispeculations in straight line code!), but that's going to come with an enormous performance cost (academics regularly brag about inventing new mitigations with ""only"" a 20% performance overhead lmao). The only option we've really found is to make interesting secrets inaccessible (site isolation in Chrome, for example). Trying to shove all user applications into a flat address space would mean giving any application the ability to read arbitrary memory, which is not great.
The solution to fixing side channels is no raw multithreading or shared memory. Solutions like Nix are better for parallel computation.
WASM sandboxing requires an MMU. It achieves its performance by trapping OOB reads via page faults.
I think they just worded that poorly. I suspect their suggestion is not that you run with the MMU _off_ (as doing so would trash your perf anyways since everything becomes uncacheable!) but rather that you don't need to context switch the page tables, which can lead to some pretty decent performance gains given that you can (on some platforms) avoid TLB flushes. Nowadays though I seriously would not consider the page table switch to be a significant cost since (in ARMv8 anyways) you have ASIDs and so switching tables is just a single msr+isb.
Nope, I meant what I wrote. You don't need an MMU, because you have no need for virtual memory or similar. Checking an integer is within some bounds is a much simpler problem, and in some cases the check can be elided through analysis on the code.
unfortunately, then, you'll need new CPUs. You don't _need_ memory protection but CPUs today are built on the assumption that you are using it and have thus stapled many critical attributes about memory to it (such as cacheability and shareability).
finally bringing the prophesy foretold in The Birth & Death Of JavaScript to fruition, nice