[linspace]

> Henin was placed in handcuffs because police in New Jersey thought the car was stolen. That was because, months earlier, the car had been courtesy towed in West Philly, and she reported it stolen as police advised. Henin followed up with Philadelphia police when she later found her car, but they mistakenly left it in the stolen-vehicle database.

It could be the argument for a sitcom. Not funny in real life when police is pointing a gun at you.

[quickthrower2]

More like a dystopian horror movie

[klodolph]

I think I’ve seen this kind of farce happen often enough in sitcoms. Odd Couple “My Strife In Court”, Seinfeld “The Parking Garage”, The Golden Girls “Ladies of the Evening”. People are always getting arrested in sitcoms for dumb reasons.

[Pulcinella]

This also happens in the opening of “Brazil” which is a dystopian nightmare with a small amount of humor and plenty of farce.

“Oops the dystopian government black bagged the wrong person because of a typo. So sorry! Here’s a check for the inconvenience.”

[colpabar]

The scene with the widow asking about her husband's body is foundational in my distrust and hatred of bureaucracy.

[2muchcoffeeman]

They didn’t check the license and registration of the vehicle?

[sokoloff]

For a reported stolen car/felony stop, it seems pretty reasonable that they'd handcuff the driver before checking the driver's license and discovering it matches the registration.

[eyelidlessness]

After reading the article but before reading the comments, I thought to myself, people will defend all manner of awful things, even when they’re this clear cut. Sure wish I’d been wrong.

Being forcibly detained is traumatic. Especially when you know you’re being detained wrongly. I’m speaking from experience here, and as someone who has received a settlement in a wrongful arrest suit.

There’s nothing reasonable about armed officers of the state putting someone in handcuffs without any prior effort to ascertain the appropriateness of that person being in handcuffs. Asking for license and registration is routine. If anything after that suggests they have actually stopped a car thief, the next appropriate action might be to forcibly detain them. It might also be more appropriate to question them further without force.

Putting a car’s rightful owner in handcuffs because their car had been towed without their knowledge, and they understandably reported it stolen when it wasn’t where they’d left it, and then they had the temerity to drive their own car after it had been recovered, is cruel. All of the prior facts would already be unbelievably stressful for most people. And of course no random cop is gonna know all of those prior facts, but that’s why they should ask questions before acting.

Let me reiterate: being forced into constraints by armed agents of the state who have broad authority, and get broad allowance, to use their monopoly on violence is terrifying. It’s even more terrifying when you know you’ve done nothing to warrant it, and especially when you’re being treated that way because of other wrongs done to you.

[dredmorbius]

The state's monopoly, qua Max Weber, is on the legitimate use of violence. That is, the right and legitimacy of that right, is restricted to the state.

Absent this, one of three conditions exist;

1. There is no monopoly. In which case violence is widespread, and there is no state.

2. There is no legitimacy. In which case violence is capricious. This is your condition of tyranny (unaccountable power).

3. Some non-state power or agent assumes the monopoly on legitimate violence. In which case it becomes, by definition the State.

The state's claim is to legitimacy. A capricious exercise would be an abrogation of legitimacy

Weber, Max (1978). Roth, Guenther; Wittich, Claus (eds.). Economy and Society. Berkeley: U. California P. p. 54.

<https://archive.org/details/economysociety00webe/page/54/mod...>

There's an excellent explanation of the common misunderstanding in this episode of the Talking Politics podcast: <https://play.acast.com/s/history-of-ideas/weberonleadership>

The misleading and abbreviated form that's frequently found online seems to have originated with Rothbard in the 1960s, and was further popularised by Nozick in the 1970s. It's now falsely accepted as a truth when in fact it is a gross misrepresentation and obscures the core principles Weber advanced.

[sokoloff]

On the spectrum of police behavior, this is left of zero for sure, but pretty benign and easy to understand.

[eyelidlessness]

After I posted my comment above, I had to calm myself because I had a spike of anxiety remembering the details of my own experiences with police aggression, and the memory takes me far away from my body into a place of distilled fear. I’m remembering more as I type this.

I think the word you’re looking for is “comprehend”. I do comprehend why police act aggressively without cause or warning. I don’t think it’s benign. I do think you’re very fortunate not to know that.

[sokoloff]

I’ve been detained, pushed down onto the trunk of the cruiser, handcuffed behind my back, patted down, put in the back, backup called, investigated, and released on the scene. The cop had a fairly reasonable reason to do what they did that turned out to be based on a false premise [I "matched the description" but wasn't the guy], I complied, and 15-20 minutes of my life was wasted.

Was it awesome? Nope. Do I get that cops aren’t clairvoyant or omniscient and sometimes people get put in and then taken out of cuffs without being arrested? Yup.

[pcl]

Years ago, I was pulled over while driving a rental car that had been reported stolen by an earlier renter a few weeks prior. I'm certainly glad that the officers in Atlanta approached the situation professionally and without any cuffs involved.

[elliekelly]

Was it a Hertz car, by any chance? Because I believe they are currently being sued for doing that thousands of times.

[pcl]

No. And the rental agency seemed pretty blameless in the whole situation. A previous renter had reported the car stolen, but then found the car not long after. It turns out that anyone can report a car stolen, but only the owner can report it un-stolen, and I'm guessing the previous renter somehow forgot to mention the whole affair to the rental agency.

The rental agency ended up giving me a free rental and a credit for another free day or something on a future rental.

[DiggyJohnson]

If the driver is otherwise complying and saying “this is my vehicle, wtf are you doing?” then: no, I strongly disagree.

[kube-system]

Thieves don't usually say "you caught me!" when confronted by police. They frequently claim they own the stolen items.

[2muchcoffeeman]

So what? If the person is non violent and cooperative why use cuffs?

[kube-system]

Cops generally determine the risk of a suspect by the severity of a crime. A felony crime is considered a significant crime.

But regardless, cops put cuffs on everyone they arrest. The point being that they don’t know who is going to fight you to get away. People will fight to escape over the dumbest things.

It’s not really a huge injustice to sit in cuffs for a couple minutes while cops verify wtf is going on. I’m the first to criticize the cops but this isn’t really that kind of situation.

If I reported my car stolen, I would expect the cops to have a reasonable assumption that the person they find it with could be the thief.

[rmatt2000]

Who are you gonna believe? Two forms of government issued paperwork, or your buddy on the other end of the radio? /s

[quickthrower2]

It was reported stolen by the owner. Reread the article for the full story on that.

[jonas21]

Right, but they could have verified that the registered owner and person driving the car were the same person.

However, since it was in a different state, perhaps the registration database wasn't available - only the stolen vehicle database was.

[sokoloff]

The article says she was handcuffed (detained); it does not say she was arrested (which would be absurd).

[jonas21]

The quote from the police chief implies she was arrested (though it's in brackets, so it could just be sloppy reporting):

> “My sergeant on the scene received information from Philly PD, who said, ‘Go ahead. Lock her up. It’s [a] good [arrest],’” Long Beach Township Police Chief Anthony Deely said in 2020.

[sokoloff]

This tweet suggests she was not arrested: https://twitter.com/phillyinquirer/status/129427390187110400...

[2muchcoffeeman]

The cuffs are also absurd. Here is a article not behind a paywall/forced login screen

https://pressofatlanticcity.com/news/crime/a-philly-police-c...

So they even approached her at gun point. And the initial tow and police report was due to police stupidity.

Now I don’t want to profile people, but she looks like a regular person and she reports her height as 4ft 11. At what point did the police feel threatened enough to draw weapons?

[mixmastamyk]

Always, and will keep them pointed at you until you are detained.