[qzx_pierri]

I acknowledge your feeling that the internet is real life, and I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree. I'll repost part of a comment I made 5 months ago because I think it's very relevant:

"Don't forget that everything you see online is a facade. 15+ years ago, I fell in love with the internet because it's somewhere I could go to be something that I'm not. I could be LOUD, or I could say things I would normally never say away from the keyboard, and I think everyone bonded together online with this fact in mind. The internet was an escape.

Soon, people began to view the internet as a reality due to the rapid homogenization into 3-4 major websites which are controlled mostly by advertisers. But what I've noticed is that most of the opinions you read online aren't very honest.

Commenters on reddit will grift in the comment section for upvotes. Some commenters on HN will purposely avoid certain topics because their account is tied to their reputation in certain very partisan circles in California. Both of these examples are often the loudest and MOST SEEN (or unseen...) replies due to the low effort alignment with the popular opinion at the time.

Although the internet seems more real everyday, I truly believe it's never been further from reality. No one is truly able to say what they want due to the (seemingly) dire consequences of saying "F*ck it" and stating your true opinion (which isn't all the time, but the option no longer exists). And this even applies in the short term. If you aren't banned, you're downvoted (HN, reddit, Lobste.rs, every website with a comment section...) or filtered by an algorithm tuned to keep corporate sponsors and advertisers happy (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube)."

[falcolas]

Many government functions (unemployment, DMV appointment scheduling, etc) can not be accessed from any place but the internet. It's one reason that Public Libraries are so important these days.

That our government requires you to use the internet puts lie to the idea that you can live a complete life without the internet.

[vel0city]

Being banned on Discord does not prevent you from using the DMV's website.

[falcolas]

Discord, no (at least for now - some government contractor adding self-help via Discord or Slack is not hard to imagine). Your gmail account? Yes, it would prevent you from using the DMV's website.

[vel0city]

No, I don't use an @gmail.com address for important communications. If Google banned me I would still be able to communicate with the government on the internet.

It turns out there's more email providers than just gmail.

[falcolas]

I feel like the goalposts of this thread have moved. We've gone from "no, you don't need the internet in your life" to "just don't use certain private entities on the internet".

Which I am going to interpret as "yes, you do need the internet to live your life, and you also have to be either savvy or unremarkable to keep from getting stomped on by private entities."

[vel0city]

> Many government functions (unemployment, DMV appointment scheduling, etc) can not be accessed from any place but the internet.

I agree with this. There are many government functions which need the internet to be able to use. But getting banned from Discord does not prevent me from accessing a government website. Getting banned from Gmail does not prevent me from sending or receiving an email from the government. Getting banned from WhatsApp does not prevent me from calling 911.

You practically do need an ISP to use the internet, often (in the US) your choice of ISP is very limited, and I do support common carrier regulations on ISPs. Maybe this will change with more wireless connectivity options becoming available to the broader public, but as it stands you normally don't have much of a choice which ISP will service your home.

But Gmail isn't an ISP. Facebook is not an ISP. You can still use the internet without having to log into Facebook. You didn't need an Instagram account to write this comment. Tiktok could ban me and I'd still be able to send emails to the government. I'd still be able to schedule a DMV appointment even if Spotify cancels my account.

If McDonald's banned me from their establishments I would not go hungry. You're essentially arguing I'd starve if they did. McDonald's makes up 24% of all fast food establishments, they're the largest player in the space. Clearly I would have a hard time ever eating without it. There's other providers out there! There are other places to get food other than McDonald's! You don't need a Gmail account to receive email!

And yes, you literally did just suggest that I needed a Gmail account to receive emails from the government. I regularly receive emails from the government to an address unrelated to Gmail.

[ncmncm]

Yet.

[qzx_pierri]

Yes, but those government services are funded using taxes, so yes, you ARE entitled to those services. You are not entitled to the use of any private service.

[falcolas]

Effectively, the entire internet is privatized. To put another way, it is impossible to access those government websites without using a private service.

And since the government does not provide an email system, you still need to use a private service to access those public resources.

[qzx_pierri]

> you still need to use a private service to access those public resources

Unless you contact them through USPS, which is a public service.

[falcolas]

See the aforementioned "you can only access some government services via the internet" statement.

[achenatx]

I dont think this is mostly true. All government services I have used recently are accessible without the internet.

It is highly inconvenient without the internet, but not required.

[tsukikage]

> most of the opinions you read online aren't very honest

IME it is exactly the opposite. People are more honest and open with their opinions on the internet; in real life, they are more likely to stay quiet or lie where they feel their interlocutors may not be accepting if their true thoughts were to be expressed.