[_ytxa]

Why can’t the parks use electronic means? I can think of a few solutions using connected bins.

1. Have a QR code printed on the bin that simply leads to a website that temporarily toggles the bin to an open state when a button is clicked.

2. Humans can read, bears cannot. Print out simple instructions with a key code, like they have at Starbucks coffee shops for bathroom access.

[smcl]

Falsehoods programmers believe about visitors to national parks:

1. everyone has a phone that has a camera

2. everyone has a phone that has internet access

3. everyone's internet access works at all times

4. everyone's phone has charge at all times

... etc

Sorry that was a bit mean but I couldn't help it :) If you're not familiar with the format, there's a number of "falsehoods programmers believe about X" articles, for example:

- https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-...

- https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-a...

For what it's worth I don't think it's a huge ask to request visitors to carry their rubbish away with them when they visit somewhere like this. If you managed to bring it out there you can surely take it back.

[throwawaylinux]

5. The system can run autonomously for any length of time.

6. A tech worker can be on site in short order to repair it when it phones home to report that it has malfunctioned.

7. Vandalism is not common and not particularly attracted to electronic devices.

... etc

> For what it's worth I don't think it's a huge ask to request visitors to carry their rubbish away with them when they visit somewhere like this. If you managed to bring it out there you can surely take it back.

Yet more falsehoods programmers believe about visitors to national parks:

1. That refraining from throwing their trash around is not a huge ask for some of them.

...

[smcl]

> 1. That refraining from throwing their trash around is not a huge ask for some of them.

Honestly, well played. I walked into that one :D

[cycomanic]

8. There is actually power to support the elaborate electronic opening mechanism for the rubbish bins.

[Sharlin]

National parks in particular are typically not known to be in places that have a great cellular reception.

[mellavora]

I saw this as a fun in-joke, not mean. And you gave the hint to bring the rest into the joke.

[alexvoda]

Maybe, but I think it was delightful.

[Animats]

Now that's over-complication.

The practical solution to this is based on humans having multiple long fingers, which bears do not have.[1]

[1] https://bearsaver.com/collections/bear-resistant-food-storag...

[bee_rider]

Depends on the park, I guess. Any electronic system will definitely require electricity, at least! Involving a QR code and a website seems to add a lot of complexity (what if the camper's phone is out of juice, what if they just have a flip phone, what if they just didn't bring their phone with them to the garbage? Plus we'll need a network connection).

An electronic keypad might work, still need electricity but it is a lot simpler. IMO you'd want something that doesn't require even simple written instructions -- I mean rarely, but still occasionally you might get a visitor with limited English literacy (people from other countries, etc). But a keypad with a number over printed above it should be kind of obvious... or a combination lock with the same. Although you'll always get somebody who doesn't make the link.

[orthoxerox]

> An electronic keypad might work, still need electricity but it is a lot simpler.

There are mechanical keypads where you have to press three buttons simultaneously.

> Although you'll always get somebody who doesn't make the link.

I once came home to see the apartment block superintendent overseeing the installation of a new mechanical keypad. The door was covered with sticky notes saying "130" over and over again, but I still almost asked him what the new code was going to be.

[bee_rider]

>> An electronic keypad might work, still need electricity but it is a lot simpler. [...] or a combination lock [...]

> There are mechanical keypads where you have to press three buttons simultaneously.

The combination lock has the benefit of being a little more familiar.

>> Although you'll always get somebody who doesn't make the link.

> I once came home to see the apartment block superintendent overseeing the installation of a new mechanical keypad. The door was covered with sticky notes saying "130" over and over again, but I still almost asked him what the new code was going to be.

It makes sense that you'd be confused -- what's the point of a keypad with the combination on the door? Unless bears are breaking into the apartment!

This does seem to indicate a problem with the keypad/combination lock idea though. Since most people are familiar with them as a form of human-blocking access control, they might not assume the number above is the password (somebody might think it is an ID number for the garbage can, for example).

[danbruc]

A website to open a garbage bin? Seriously?

[moonchrome]

Web developer spotted :)

I'm sure there will be a ML guy here telling us we could train a NN to recognize bears on the camera and lock the bins (will probably lock out the bins whenever a child brings a teddy bear toy/shirt and or randomly at a small enough percentage that it will annoy people but won't be worth fixing)

[rypskar]

So that is why lecture 2 in the fast.ai course is a bear detector that also can detect if it is a real bear or a teddy bear https://github.com/fastai/fastbook/blob/master/02_production...

[Dalewyn]

When all you have is JavaScript, every problem looks like a website.

[xani_]

Someone arguing for trashcan needing internet connection and power in middle of forest...

... you know that, fuck this, go ahead and pitch it to some silicon valley VC, I'm sure someone will take a bait

[nibbleshifter]

I mean, the city I live in spent an absurd amount of money installing the latest and greatest solar powered, WiFi enabled, somewhat compacting garbage cans.

So there's clearly a market for smart bins.

[ballenf]

Because a prankster will replace the QR code with one that pops open a different can just behind you. Hopefully it's on a timer and closes just before you can get there for maximum fun.

[bagels]

That seems like a good way to have people leave trash next to the trash can.

[Cthulhu_]

We have underground trash bins that need a keycard to unlock and open and are designed in such a way that you can't reach in when it's opened; something like that, maybe with a camera with basic facial / human detection. But nothing internet connected or requiring people's electronics, they go there to escape from that.

[dspillett]

> Why can’t the parks use electronic means?

Right now? Cost to implement and maintain. Who is going to fund it?

Back in the 80s when this story & quote comes from? Money may have been relatively flush then, but the tech was not available (at least not in a form that could be realistically rolled out park-wide) no matter the funds offered.

[icelancer]

Because that was written in 2006, referencing something from much earlier than that?

[EGreg]

How do you know that a desperate mama bear can't learn to read?

https://theconversation.com/can-crows-read-3740 hehehehehe

[orthoxerox]

That's not reading, though. My son can do what these crows can: associate familiar symbols with some concept: "green cross" means pharmacy, "Auchan" means the big shop with carts. However, he is disabled and can't read in the sense of "process novel information provided in textual form".

[ClumsyPilot]

> Have a QR code printed on the bin that simply leads to a website

This comment is the perfect specimen of why our industry is a fucking joke. It should be illegal for us to call ourselves engineers.

This is how a vending machine that takes coins gets replaced by a vending machine that requires internet, a smartphone, two apps and three passwords to buy a water bottle.

This is how you get critical infrastructure like elevators where display showing floor number lags (!), it needs wifi and the elevator goes down for software updates.