[Tokkemon]

Well, I live in the burbs and have a kid in his carseat in the back, plus stroller and groceries. Not to mention I'm a rather large man and when we last looked for cars I literally couldn't fit into a lot of them, I need more space. Even more, great gas mileage and reliability, and very safe. "Compact SUVs" or whatever they call the Subaru Forester now and it's ilk are exactly perfect for my family, especially with another kid on the way.

[fahrradflucht]

At least in Europe, 10 years ago you would have bought a family van. Nothing in this list of requirements says you need truck like features of an SUV.

[paganel]

> 10 years ago you would have bought a family van.

Fellow European here, we don't have kids but we were thinking at maybe getting a second dog, which made me look for a possible car replacement (we now have a 15+ year-old small hatchback). After some searching and calculating I found out that the "usefulness" of cars for my purported task (to transport two dogs in the back) can be summarized like this (in decreasing order): vans -> station wagons/estates -> SUVs/CUVs.

Unfortunately vans are on their out, I can't really understand the reason why (the VW Sharan will cease production this year, Ford C-Max ceased production back in 2019 etc), station wagons are also not feeling good, almost every car company is betting the house on SUVs/CUVs, which is a trend I don't like at all, because you get to pay more money for less utility.

[dontlaugh]

They might come back, the VW id buzz is the first and cheaper options from other manufacturers will likely follow.

A quick review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51fyxgcVrKM

[dm319]

Agreed, where are all the MPVs going? We have a Cmax grande and it has more space than most SUVs. It even has better head and leg room.

[sixstringtheory]

I don’t know what kind of van you have in mind but there are plenty of vans in the US that are actually more powerful and heavy than a SUV. A Chrysler Voyager has 100 more hp and weighs about 900 lbs more than a Forester.

[badpun]

The vans don't pretend to be built for off-road, so they have better steering and lower gas mileage (both due to lower suspention and to lower weight).

[rpdillon]

Is this true? The van mentioned, the Chrysler Voyager, gets about 22mpg. The Subaru Forester (mentioned elsewhere as an example SUV) gets about 28mpg. The Forrester is about 3600 pounds, vs. 4300 pounds for the Voyager.

[badpun]

The vans made by US companies for US markets are gas guzzlers, but the ones made for other markets are better. For example, Ford S-Max sold in Poland gets 37 mpg, and is larger than the Forester.

[rpdillon]

Looked into this a bit. S-Max is a hybrid minivan, so gas mileage won't compare with Forester, but otherwise, they seem oddly identical.

S-Max vs. Forester Curb weight: 3626 lbs vs. 3620 Mileage: 44 mpg vs. 30 mpg Cargo: 77.69 cubic feet vs. 74.2 cubic feet

So about 6 pounds heavier and 4 cubic feet more space than the Forester. It would be interesting if we had a hybrid Forester to compare with, but that doesn't seem to exist (yet).

Also looked into U.S. vans being gas guzzlers. A comparable vehicle in the U.S. is the Toyota Sienna, since it's a hybrid minivan. It's 4700 pounds, gets 36 mpg (vs. 44 for S-Max), but has 101 cubic feet of cargo space, which is 1/3 more than the S-Max. Seems to correlate well with weight, which makes sense.

Based on this, my (current) take is that mid-size SUVs in the U.S. are equivalent to these smaller minivans elsewhere, and U.S. minivans are a bit larger and heavier than that.

[morsch]

For two kids? Not even a van, just a station wagon.

[Munksgaard]

My wife, kid in a car seat, and I recently went on a two weeks vacation in our VW Polo, baby stroller, disassembled om changing table and two weeks worth of luggage included. Granted, the car was jam-packed, but it makes me think you could get the things you listed to fit in a smaller car.

[Doxin]

Never mind that even a larger european car like a citroën berlingo is wildly smaller than most american SUVs.

[cycomanic]

On the outside, cars like the berlingo offer so much more room on the inside than even large SUVs it's not even funny. Goes to show that many of the "I need a large car because I have a family" arguments, are really more about looking big from the outside, not so much about internal practicalities.

[nephanth]

Do people actually buy berlingos to drive their family? I thought they were more intended to transport items / tools

[Doxin]

My mom got one mainly because it was convenient for transporting my grandma. Not many cars you can exit from sitting height. Of course it also fits a lot of crap when e.g. going on holiday. It's an odd in-between between a sedan and a van.

[cycomanic]

The older Berlin OS were much more trade/transport cars, but the newer Berlingo comes in a family version which is pretty cool (and received reviews at least in the German press).

[fennecfoxy]

My family got a Toyota Granvia. It fit 2 parents, 4 kids, 2 dogs, any strollers backpacks etc that we needed just fine.

Hell, my whole family went around the South Island on holiday in it for a whole month and it was just fine.

Cultural differences I guess. If you're an American you _need_ an SUV, I get it.

[rpdillon]

I guess I'm confused. The Granvia is about 5700 lbs and gets about 20 mpg. The Forrester is about 3600 lbs and gets 28 mpg. Why choose the Granvia?

[fennecfoxy]

NZ has different vehicles available to other countries. This was about 15 years ago or so. And a family of 6 plus several dogs and luggage capability.

I'm sure they could have maybe picked a smaller vehicle as well but economics also come into it - it was a secondhand Japanese import (NZ gets a lot of those, in fact when I was a kid we found yen coins still hidden underneath the seats) so it was gotten on the cheap as well.