[ai_ia]

Bukowski was an eccentric guy and often he used to contradict himself. This poem seems to encompass his life philosophy and which also happens to be written on his tombstone in just two words: "Don't try"

However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. And this is a poem I really admire.

  ROLL THE DICE

  -------------

  If you’re going to try, go all the way.

  Otherwise, don’t even start.

  If you’re going to try, go all the way.

  This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs and maybe even your mind.

  It could mean not eating for three or four days.

  It could mean freezing on a park bench.

  It could mean jail.

  It could mean derision, mockery, isolation.

  Isolation is the gift.

  All the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it.

  And, you’ll do it, despite rejection and the worst odds.

  And it will be better than anything else you can imagine.

  If you’re going to try, go all the way.

  There is no other feeling like that.

  You will be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire.

  DO IT. DO IT. DO IT. All the way

  You will ride life straight to perfect laughter. It’s the only good fight there is.

[coldtea]

>However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying.

Is it a different outlook? I think the "don't try" in the gravestone you mention refers to the same concept, or as Yoda put it "Do or Do not. Do not try".

"Don't try" to me reads not like "Don't do anything daring" (avoid trying stuff) but instead "Do things fully, don't just dip your toes in" (commit to stuff, don't do half-hearted tries).

Besides we do know that he did go all the way, he quit his main non-writing job (at a later age) and went all-in in writing.

[CaptArmchair]

Roald Dahl wrote in "Uncle Oswald"

> “I began to realize how important it was to be an enthusiast in life. He taught me that if you are interested in something, no matter what it is, go at it at full speed ahead. Embrace it with both arms, hug it, love it and above all become passionate about it. Lukewarm is no good. Hot is no good either. White hot and passionate is the only thing to be.”

And I think that's exactly what you and Bukowski are saying here.

Of course, the "don't try" line is an aphorism. Often enough, you won't know whether or not you'll like something until you've tried it. And sometimes, it might take a few tries and some warming up. That's only human. Often enough, though you already know deep down your gut "this isn't for me" while your mind hasn't caught up yet. Bukowski's poem might just be the bucket of icewater that some aspiring writers, stuck in a grueling grind over their keyboards, really need.

[lelag]

I thought I heard that line of thinking from somewhere.

> "No. Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try"

Master Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back.

[coldtea]

Yoda also referenced by name in my comment :)

[lelag]

I appear to have glanced over it too fast...

[calculated]

Yes, by Don't try he means don't try, but if you do give it absolutely everything you have.

[Silverback_VII]

I like the nietzschean spirit in the poem you posted.

I found the following after searching for "don't try" which is also quite nice:

"Somebody asked me: "What do you do? How do you write, create?" You don't, I told them. You don't try. That's very important: not to try, either for Cadillacs, creation or immortality. You wait, and if nothing happens, you wait some more. It's like a bug high on the wall. You wait for it to come to you. When it gets close enough you reach out, slap out and kill it. Or if you like its looks, you make a pet out of it." - Charles Bukowski

[agumonkey]

It reminds me of the antique view of genius. Which was something that happened to and through you rather that you.

[agumonkey]

There's often a leap of faith in important matters. I believe both his views don't try or all the way are trying to convey that. Basically don't waste time going mild.

But truth is, he's not telling the whole story. First full throttle may make you blind. Second there are times you can't go all in on one shot (lack of resources, risk of death, or simply not knowing which path). You have to chunk your progress. Still doing these chunks with high intensity, care and reminiscence.

[badpun]

> Second there are times you can't go all in on one shot (lack of resources, risk of death, or simply not knowing which path). You have to chunk your progress.

I believe his philosophy was to ignore those issues (lack of resources, risk of death), because if you start thinking about them, you'll never venture out, but instead spend your whole life preparing.

[idiotsecant]

I mean, flowery language aside clearly there are plenty of circumstances when ignoring constraints and doggedly pursuing your goals will definitely lead to failure. We don't live in a universe where willing something makes it so, no matter how bad we want it. To achieve things we must have a healthy mix of modeling our external universe and and basing our decisions on that vs. ignoring that internal modeling process and just giving it a go.

But none of that fits in a poem, so I get it.

[agumonkey]

I guess we lost that sense in modern life. But we used to be more acquainted to risks and venture before. Nowadays we can't think about risks precisely because we don't know our limits.

[badpun]

> But we used to be more acquainted to risks and venture before.

I think it was so because the regular life had very little to offer. I mean, I would probably try my luck on a pirate ship, if the alternative was back-breaking work and being hungry half of the time. But nowadays, why take risks, when there's a regular coding job is a sure path to tons of comfort and pleasure?

[agumonkey]

Sure but even modern comfy life is not guaranteed to give you all you need. And you're stuck wondering what to do. I'd bet solid money that a lot of people are unhappy because they lost that sense. It mirrors who you are deep inside, and often the cost (unless degenerated) are worth the benefits.

[badpun]

This poet is fantastically narrated in this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNo8EFRwvus (BTW it's better without the associated montage of video clips IMO, just switch to a different tab and listen to the audio alone).

[tyrust]

also, this (sorta botched) version after an insane run at AGDQ: https://youtu.be/7d76YdrGawE?t=47m

[PartiallyTyped]

"Don't try" is misinterpreted to mean "don't bother" when it should be interpreted as "Do or do not, there's no try", and "If you __have__ to try, don't do it all".

[instagraham]

Thanks for sharing! I used to really dislike this poem because it felt like gatekeeping. But the poem you linked gives a nice alternate perspective.

[Quindecillion]

"Do or do not. There is no try."

[mettamage]

This poem seems to how I currently approach dating. Tinder autoswipe on. Immediate authentic message as to why I like the women I don’t unmatch. Women on the streets, telling them I find them attractive, and if they have time to listen going into detail why. Most of them it makes their day.

I couldn’t care less if I get an infinite amount of rejections. I am not setting for less. I’m too old for that shit and I have seen what it does. If it means I’ll end up alone constantly striking out until I die, then so be it.

I am ready to never experience any form of love and intimacy ever again, and because I am ready for that I feel fearless to go after what I want.

Needless to say, I am not that good looking. I am only living once and realizing it.

Oh, and I am also a feminist, I do everything with consent and apologize for any intrusions. You’d be surprised how polite I am (taking proper distance) despite being direct with my compliments on Tinder/everywhere else.

If you read my comment history, I was in relationships the whole time (single since recently).

Edit: I knew this would get downvotes. Yet, I wrote it anyway, to me this topic matters enough that I don't mind the downvotes. If anything, the downvotes are in spirit of the poem and how I approach this. I'm willing to get hurt a lot more in this area. I'm willing to risk it all. Are you? For the past 10 years, I know I wouldn't.

I know I think differently than some about this. I also know that whenever I get into a conversation with most of you, it seems we're more similar than you'd think. I've had enough of them, a lot of unchecked assumptions are hashed out and it seems in most cases we tend to agree (at least based on the dozens of conversations I've had with people).

To all the downvoters, I'd suggest two things: (1) suggest a better alternative, (2) I'm open to hearing why you think my approach is not a net positive to the world. I think it is: I'm allowing others to meet me as a person. I don't see what's wrong with that. You downvoted, so clearly you think it's a net negative. I'm open to a good faith based discussion on it.

I'm always open to learning.

[anony23]

I think you're being downvoted because your post is off topic.