[mabil]

> We might still want the whole concept destroyed

I am not well versed about republic vs. monarchy apart from my limited experience, which might be more than many people, but not as valuable as someone that have studied that and can pitch in. Coming from BR, have lived in AU, NZ, and UK, and traveled a lot, I would take monarchy over a republic any day, extrapolating on that, and just looking at the current state of affairs of republic countries vs the ones coming from monarchy, which ones look in a better state, and makes you want to move to, live in and raise your family?

And mad props to UK for keeping --relatively to others-- really well so far.

Thank you and Rest in Peace.

[scaramanga]

The UK is in a shocking state of decline, so not sure what metrics you are using there?

Widespread unemployment, hunger, life expectancies in decline, 1,000 people are dying a month from the botched "response" to covid. Hundreds of thousands in early graves due to same covid response, and before that already over a hundred thousand in early graves as a result of austerity. The political system seems to have completely collapsed and be unable to respond to crises or meet even the most basic survival needs of its population.

I wouldn't lay this on the feet of the monarchy, cos the elected officials seem to be the main cause of it.

But which republics are you looking at? Because I live in one, and I can't imagine moving back to the UK any time soon. Again, I don't think that's because it's a republic, it just happens to have a basically functioning political an economic system that hasn't (yet) failed.

[mabil]

> The UK is in a shocking state of decline, so not sure what metrics you are using there?

Metric is where "I" would raise my family, and based on all other western options, monarchies would come first; Brasilians idolises US, I can tell you because I was one of them, but them once you grow up and have a little more exposure to the world and different cultures, the current state it encounters itself it would be one of the last places I would live, because of its recurrent issues, mainly gun control, healthcare, I would also included woman's health birth choices under healthcare, those being the top ones, are a sad joke.

Of course everything depends on which stage one is at life, at the moment this is what I think with a young family, maybe if I was single just leaving Brasil, I would have fell in love with it, but that is not my experience. * At the moment I am fortunate enough to work from NZ with an US salary, and maybe when I am older I might retire on a Spanish villa, who knows, but US is not what it used to be.

> ...1,000 people are dying a month from the botched "response" to covid...

How many republics appear before the first monarch country in this[1] list? [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat...

> I wouldn't lay this on the feet of the monarchy, cos the elected officials seem to be the main cause of it. Me neither, but it is hard not to conclude that the further away a country have been "independent" the worse it is.

* I have been on some business trips to US. PS: Other countries I would consider would be AU, NZ, UK, CA and Nordics, also I could not care less who is running what, as long as my family is safe and I have peace of mind.

[jbjbjbjb]

I think you’re overstating the decline. But yes too much democracy in Brexit and a badly designed democracy with the first past the post system. Widespread apathy to politics doesn’t help either.

[scaramanga]

Among peer countries it is uniquely non-resilient and unable to respond to the challenges it faces. Even with the covid disaster, it was very lucky that it has a fantastic institution like the NHS, which politicians have, so far, been unable to completely cripple or dominate. And also lucky to still have a serious pharma industry, literally the very industry that is needed to respond to a pandemic crisis. So you'd think given that fact, plus it's huge wealth, it would have had to have had one of the best COVID responses in the world?

The paradox of the UK is that it has a lot of wealth, many institutions and industries which still function and have not yet collapsed. But the political system itself has completely collapsed, and the economy is faltering badly.

The US is in a similar situation. But, of course, still leading the world in many regards.

[epolanski]

Fun fact but english monarchy is an asset rather than a cost for britain, there's massive business and tourism around it. Seeing castles where real nobles live is different to empty castle-museums.

Also the royal family pays taxes and lease lots of stuff to the government at no cost.

[scaramanga]

Their entire industry would be nationalized if they were abolished and it would bring in even more revenue.

Not to mention, legoland UK brings in a lot of tourists, but we don't have an unelected lego man as the head of state, secretly vetoing laws or orchestrating coups.

[movedx]

Well said.

Look at the HDI: https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/human-development-index#/in...

Look at the top ten countries. How many are a constitutional monarchy? Which of them would you rather live in? :-)

[volkse]

The preservation of traditional institutions (like monarchy) does not have a direct influence on HDI. Both high HDI scores and the fact that traditional institutions (no matter how expensive) are preserved has to do with long sustained periods of political stability, physical security and as a result, economic prosperity.

[fsloth]

I think monarchy is irrelevant for HDI and the correlation is more about long term political stability rather than better politics. My country (Finland) could have been a monarchy but ended up not being so. I can’t imagine what could be better with a monarch.

[green_on_black]

Presumably, a life-long monarch would enhance political stability.

[pavlov]

In Finland, already one of the most politically stable countries in the world?

There’s no discernible difference on this count between Finland and its Nordic peers that are constitutional monarchies.

[fsloth]

If we agree to measure political stability as world bank does, the only countries more politically stable in the world than Finland in 2015 were Switzerland and New Zealand.

https://govdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/hd8f5d509?indica...

I fail to see how making Finland more stable would improve anything, or that adding a monarch would achieve this goal.

Royalism sounds like the hunt for a silver bullet that would fix complex problems and institutions in a society. I don't think there is any evidence quasi-religion by itself improves institutions.

[scaramanga]

None of them are constitutional monarchies in quite the same way the UK is? The UK has a uniquely intact monarchic system.. But then, the UK is an outlier in many things when compared with similarly wealthy countries.