[JohnFen]

> But how do you assess progress when you remove all desire to monetize?

If you ignore the profit motive, presumably you are doing it for other reasons. You assess "progress" based on those motives. Or perhaps you don't assess "progress" at all, beyond "I like what I'm doing here and where this is going".

I've run numerous internet services over the years without the goal of them generating an income at all. I've run MUDs, websites, discussion groups, etc. I didn't objectively measure anything about any of them, because my goals were not ones that could be objectively measured. And honestly, even if there were some metric that could be used, I would have avoided using it because then it becomes about maximizing the metric rather than the purpose I started the activity in the first place. If I was happy with how they were going, that counted as "success" to me.

> So, even without a profit motive, what do you do?

I honestly don't understand this question. Without a profit motive, you do it for other motives. If you have no other motives, then why are you doing it at all?

[the_snooze]

>because my goals were not ones that could be objectively measured

This is something that technically-minded people can take to heart more. There's a lot of value in things that can't be objectively measured. For instance, I'm in a bunch of group chats with various friends. I don't always interact with it (i.e., my "engagement" is fairly low), but I derive a lot of enjoyment from those. Why? Because I like those people. Can I put a number on how much I like those people? No, because I'm not a socially stunted robot.

[tialaramex]

> There's a lot of value in things that can't be objectively measured

Or maybe there isn't much value, since apparently you wouldn't be able to tell. Except, you can tell, and so actually they can be measured. You don't want to measure them, but that's not the same thing.

> Can I put a number on how much I like those people? No, because I'm not a socially stunted robot.

You don't want to put a number on it. That's fine. But can it be done? Of course it can. In fact even if we insist on trying never to think about it that way, we make decisions based on how much we like people all the time. I've never measured how far it is from where I live to the supermarket. Why would I? But it would be silly to claim I can't put a number on it, I just chose not to.

[atoav]

The point is that putting a number on it might not capture the meaning and the context humans put into it. There is so many ways to do this wrong, that sometimes it is just better to have someone who loves the topic and tells you: "yep it is going good", if it is indeed going good.

[mhall119]

So many things are qualitative, but not quantitative. They can be measured, but not counted. Happiness is one of those, you can say that you are "more happy" or "less happy" from one day to the next, but you can't count happiness, you can't put a number on it.

[nonameiguess]

I don't think you're taking this the way it was intended. The person who posted is a moderator who does not have a profit motive. Reddit doesn't distribute profit to subreddit moderators (as far as I know?). But even without a profit motive, he is still left without any simple way to evaluate the quality of submissions and decide what should be promoted and what should be killed. The point being "engagement" is often used not because of profit motive, but even in the absence of profit motive, it is a good default metric that is easy to measure in trying to figure out what your community actually wants to see.

He's not asking what motives you should have if you don't have a profit motive. He's asking, even in the absence of a profit motive, what better measure of content quality is there than how much the community engages with it? You gave an answer. In communities you ran, you just asked yourself if you were happy with them. That's an acceptable answer. But assuming someone who runs a community wants the community to be happy as well, that is a lot harder to assess, as you no longer have direct access to their mental states the way you have to your own. Now you're left again with the need to estimate their happiness via some proxy measure. If not engagement, what should that be?

I'm not saying there is no answer and all communities should throw up their hands and either just use engagement or use no measure at all, but I do think it is legitimately a hard question.

[scythe]

>I didn't objectively measure anything about any of them, because my goals were not ones that could be objectively measured. And honestly, even if there were some metric that could be used, I would have avoided using it because then it becomes about maximizing the metric rather than the purpose I started the activity in the first place.

There is a middle ground here. Choose a basket of metrics, impose the natural partial ordering, and intuit your way through pushing up one or the other. If this sounds crazy, keep in mind it's roughly how the Fed (inflation + unemployment) runs the monetary system.