[joaomacp]

Babylon 5 is a well made SciFi show and I'd recommend it!

I'm currently on season 3, started watching it because of Casey Muratori's (video game programmer, author of "Handmade Hero" educational streams) series of interviews with Jonas Kyratzes (video game designer, writer of "Talos Principle"), where they discuss the show: [0]

The distinguishing point about the show is that it features a coherent world, where some small detail happening in one episode can come back 6 episodes later. It's also coherent in between seasons, since it was pre-planned as a 5-season show spanning exactly 5 years on the Babylon 5 station.

Also, it features early computer animated 3D art made on Amiga computers. It hasn't aged that well but gets the job done.

[0]: https://youtu.be/iASsvQ8sX9w

[wvenable]

Season 1 is a bit rough but there is some pay off in terms of foreshadowing/continuity in later seasons that make it better in retrospect.

Unfortunately for the 5 year arc, they weren't sure they'd get a Season 5 so much of plot ends in Season 4 and Season 5 suffers for it.

[ekidd]

Yes, Season 1 is really uneven. For new viewers, if you have someone to pick out the important episodes, then you can skip the rest and come back later. (And you can always skip "TKO".)

Seasons 2 to through 4 are still some of my all-time favorite science fiction TV. The three-episode mini-arc of "Messages from Earth", "Point of No Return" and "Severed Dreams" (IIRC) is still incredibly intense.

The closest thing I can think of today is probably The Expanse. It has the same mix of human politics in the face of aliens we cannot comprehend. Of course, The Expanse has a higher budget and more consistent acting.

In a lot of ways, Babylon 5 is the first "streaming-style" show. There's a clear series arc, viewers are expected to know what happened in previous episodes, and there's plenty of foreshadowing for the attentive viewer. (The original online Babylon 5 fandom kept track of every tiny hint.) Buffy was also moving in that direction, and Star Trek quickly followed.

[kemayo]

It's tricky even just pulling out key episodes from Season 1, because a lot of what you need is the character work. You can get all the raw plot elements that come up again later, but if you're not somewhat invested in characters like Londo and G'kar, the impact of later events is going to be dulled.

[orangecat]

The three-episode mini-arc of "Messages from Earth", "Point of No Return" and "Severed Dreams" (IIRC) is still incredibly intense.

Probably my favorite moment of 90s TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv3t86imsDI. RIP Mira Furlan.

[flopsamjetsam]

I hadn't realised she'd passed away. That is sad news.

[autoexec]

Your comment was great timing, I've been watching the first season and it's been starting to grow on me, but I really wasn't sure if I would stick with it. It's crazy that it came out 7 years after Star Trek TNG, but still somehow aged so much worse.

[Tuna-Fish]

The effects on B5 got noticeably better each season.

This was simply because it used all-digital effects in a time where the same budget would buy you twice the rendering time a year later.

[aidenn0]

I think season 1 of B5 is way better than season 1 of TNG, with the exception that TNG's pilot was way better.

I'll have to ask my wife, she hadn't seen either until adulthood.

[mcphage]

If you find anything worth watching in Season 1, then please, stick with it. The later seasons are worlds better.

[ChuckMcM]

Exactly. I felt the Expanse was similarly engaging. The shenanigans of season 5 being on again off again impacted the way B5 ended up, but even with those headwinds I highly recommend it.

[AdamJacobMuller]

> they weren't sure they'd get a Season 5

If you read the JMS script books, it wasn't that they weren't sure if they would get an S5, it was that they were 100% sure they would NOT get an S5 and he was forced to wrap everything up in S4 or it would be gone forever.

S4/S5 would have been much better had the original plan stuck, but, that wasn't even the primary reason S5 had major issues. JMS was staying in a hotel at some con and a maid helpfully cleaned up his room including trashing 100s of post-it notes containing his outlines for S5. This was the same conference where Claudia Christian blew him off and lost the last opportunity to be on the show -- not entirely her fault as she did not got bad advice -- she talks about this in her book but she thought it was a negotiating ploy and she (and her agent) wanted to raise her quote for the final season especially since it was well known it was the final season and she would immediately be job hunting after S5 and it unfortunately ended up with her off the show.

It didn't help that they had killed off XXXXX (can I spoil a 20-year-old show? not going to find out...) and saved her character.

Keep in mind JMS had been show runner for 4 years at that point and had written most of S1, almost all of S2 and all of S3/S4, something unheard of at the time and even crazier considering that they are 20+ episode seasons each, then he lost two starring actors (in variously shitty ways), lost all his notes, I'm amazed we got an S5 at all and a lesser person would have just given up.

Ultimately the final season was just shot through with challenges, despite it all, I enjoy it. The telepath situation and the conclusion of that was a great arc.

[DennisP]

Season 5 might have sucked watching one episode a week but as a binge watcher, I thought it worked out pretty well.

The whole series ended up with a narrative arc like a novel. First season was setup. Things started to pick up in season 2, then 3 and 4 built to a huge peak, and season 5 wound it down, like Lord of the Rings after the ring is destroyed.

I can't think of any other show that has a single narrative arc like this across the whole series. At most you get an arc per season. Often not even that; e.g. the new Battlestar Galactica was a continuing story but the narrative tension was pretty even throughout, with a series of small arcs, each just a few episodes long.

[midasuni]

B5 was one of the first non soaps to have a continuous narrative. Stargate followed, and later seasons of ds9 copied it too. Was a great time

Later shows went for a single narrative spread over a season — 24 pioneered that, but before that Buffy had championed the “big bad” each season, although with Buffy you didn’t have to watch every episode in order for it to make sense.

Even in the 2010s the new Star Trek series (Picard, Discovery), and especially the CW arrowverse are prime examples of how poor that structure is.

[orev]

Stargate did have an overarching plot, but was still very episodic (like many other shows at the time). To me, Farscape was far more in line with the new idea of a continuous narrative.

This type of TV was enabled by TiVo/DVRs. Before then, producers couldn’t rely on people not missing an episode, because if they did they’d be lost. (Not coincidentally, Lost was also enabled TiVos for the same reason).

[devoutsalsa]

SG-1 and B5 were both fantastic. The effects in SG-1 age a little better, but I think they both hold up pretty well. I miss that feeling of hoping the VCR or TiVo worked properly so that I didn’t have to wait for the rerun XD

[teamonkey]

> TiVo/DVRs

VCRs!

[orev]

I’m aware of and was around when VCRs came out. They were always a huge pain to use and program. People would make the effort for really important things, but not for general TV shows. Because there wasn’t enough critical mass of people recording, TV shows weren’t made that would have taken advantage of it.

By the time TiVo came out, VCRs had almost been relegated to nothing, as the rental markets had moved to DVDs, and media companies were perfectly happy with consumers using products that were read-only. The idea of recording TV to a hard drive was absolutely revolutionary, as it finally made it easy enough to use and reach the critical mass needed for continuous storylines.

[ars]

> but not for general TV shows

I did. I had a fancy VCR that would automatically skip commercials "Commercial Advance", and I setup a VCR+ program on my computer so I could quickly and easily program the VCR.

When I missed a show (it was rare) I found online review sites that would recap the episode, sometimes they even had screenshots. Or I would stock up recordings and wait for the rerun, and then continue.

Back then TV stations were pretty good about having reruns relatively soon after an episode, specifically for people who missed the original broadcast. They would often do them late at night.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=VCR_Plus

[II2II]

I never really understood the point of VCR+ aside from selling Sunday papers (or whatever day the TV guide came bundled in), since it was easier to just enter the parameters based upon when the show regularly aired. Then again, I used the VCR purely for what would later be called time-shifting. Recording over an original broadcast and ending up with a rerun didn't much matter to me. But the feature to skip commercials sounds pretty sweet.

[Sharlin]

I guess most people never learned how to program their VCR for timed recording ;)

[tablespoon]

> It's also coherent in between seasons, since it was pre-planned as a 5-season show spanning exactly 5 years on the Babylon 5 station.

Though the 5th season is weak, because the show was threatened with cancellation. IIRC, each season had an "major plot" and a "minor plot." To adapt to the cancellation threat, they crammed the season 4 and 5 "major plots" into season 4 (IIRC defeat the Shadows, liberate Earth), leaving season 5 with two "minor plots." The season 5 finale was originally shot as part of season 4, but delayed when the show was renewed.

[blooalien]

I started watching this series back in the day because it involved Commodore Amiga and Lightwave 3D (both of which I owned and used at the time). Totally agree with you about "distinguishing features". That's what kept me watching it right to the end (including the movies)… As to "It hasn't aged that well" re; the animation, it's honestly aged better'n some other shows from around the same timeframe, although some A.I. upscaling of resolution for modern displays might be nice to see. I'm highly in favor of more new Babylon 5 stuff coming forth…