[clhodapp]

or the values provided by ORMs

I'll point out that the world is pretty diverse and there are actually lots of people who think that ORMs were a mistake and lots of people who think that using them is always a no-brainer. There's an interesting phenomenon that it seems like a lot of folks manage to build up reasonably long careers while only running into one side of this divide or the other and not even realize that the verdict on ORMs isn't a settled fact where one choice is always right.

Perhaps it's similar with engineering management and we should be having a more nuanced conversation.

[bottled_poe]

> there are actually lots of people who think that ORMs were a mistake and lots of people who think that using them is always a no-brainer.

This doesn’t mean that both groups are right though.

[clhodapp]

I would argue that neither group is right. Both are myopic and only see things from a limited perspective.

[bottled_poe]

Ironic. Correctness is indeed a curse on the few.