[djhaskin987]

This kind of campaign would not be possible in the US because the provider can simply turn your service off with no questions asked, where from their FAQ it sounds like turning it off is heavily regulated in the UK.

On the one hand, solar panels will not fix this problem. Sun and wind both die down in the UK in the winter. You need hydrocarbons.

Honestly, if it were me, I'd ask them to turn my gas off and just heat a few rooms with electric heaters, and buy lots of blankets. It's not very convenient, but wearing a coat indoors is free. That feels more honest than stealing their gas and then not paying for it. Sure, they're probably ripping me off. Doesn't mean I should do the same.

[Normille]

  > That feels more honest than stealing their gas and then not paying for it. Sure, they're probably ripping me off. Doesn't mean I should do the same.

This kind of supine attitude is why 'The Great British* Public' continues to be fucked over by their governments, year after year, decade after decade and just keeps on taking it, with barely a murmur.

Even when they're plunging a huge section of the population into abject poverty, causing thousands of elderly people to die of hypothermia over the winter, causing countless people to contemplate suicide --because they literally can't afford to heat their homes or pay their energy bills...

...you're more concerned with not 'stealing' from the energy companies --who've just made record profits again, whose shareholders are laughing all the way to the bank. And whose directors will likely see out the worst of the winter on the yachts in the Bahamas they bought with their multi-million pound annual bonuses.

[*insert other nations, as appropriate]

PS: Why has this thread been flagged. It's a damned sight more important than most of the stuff that gets submitted on here, these days.

[rconti]

The opposite of a supine attitude is, apparently, justifying any kind of aggression with "he started it" or "but someone else is doing it too!"

[Raed667]

Provider turns off utility for 100 people, those 100 people have a problem

Provider turns off utility for 1 million people, the provider has a problem

Collective action works.

[jzwinck]

Not much gas will get stolen. This campaign says they'll stop their direct debit arrangements. They'll still owe the money and most people will pay eventually. It may squeeze the utility companies a bit in the short term though, and I wonder if they have insurance for this kind of thing.

[nradov]

Utility companies don't purchase insurance against their customers not paying. The utilities can draw down their capital reserves, or if necessary borrow money to continue operating until customers pay their bills.

[onion2k]

This kind of campaign would not be possible in the US because the provider can simply turn your service off with no questions asked, where from their FAQ it sounds like turning it off is heavily regulated in the UK.

That might be true, but if enough customers organise to refuse to pay the company will collapse. You can't carry on trading if you cut off some relatively large percentage of your revenue stream. There's no reason to belive customers are powerless in the US.

[rconti]

It depends on the state, but that's not really true in the US, either.

[djhaskin987]

I can still cut off their revenue stream (canceling my service) and fight back without stealing.

[onion2k]

You can but that doesn't send the same message. The point is to tell the companies "We want your service but we believe the price is unreasonable." Cancelling the service fails to achieve that.

Also, this isn't stealing. It's negotiating. Withholding payment until you get what you need is a very common tactic in business. There's no reason why consumers shouldn't be able to use it too.

[sixstringtheory]

> Withholding payment until you get what you need is a very common tactic in business

Are you talking about negotiating a contract or breaching one you've already agreed to? If the latter, can you provide some examples of breaching a contract to negotiate new terms? That's not something I've heard before, I think.

[onion2k]

Neither. I'm saying that common for two parties to sign a contract that agrees a payment schedule based on delivery milestones, and for one party to withhold payment because they think the other party hasn't delivered what they said they would deliver. For example, if X commissions a website from Y that says X will pay when the website is "done", X will refuse to pay Y until X thinks it's fast enough, or has a feature that Y didn't think they would have to develop, etc. The negotiation is around whether or not the terms of the contract have been fulfilled.

[Normille]

If you've signed up for a payment plan for £xx/month and overnight it goes up to £xx+30%/month in August, with the threat of another similar price hike in January, it could be argued that the energy companies broke the contract.

Yes, there has always been the possibility of prices rising. But there's also always been a reasonable expectation that any price rises would be in line with inflation. Not +30% twice in the space of a few months.

[legulere]

> wind both die down in the UK in the winter.

I don’t know wether the UK has some vastly different wind patterns but in Germany wind is strongest in the winter and night

[djhaskin987]

Actually the video I watched directly talks about this being a major problem for Germany specifically.

Transcript: http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2022/08/no-sun-no-wind-now-...

[legulere]

It is indeed a problem, however just for a few days in the year, most of the winter there's no issue. From your link:

> The German weather service estimates that it happens on the average twice each year, that the power production from wind and solar in Germany is less than 10% the expected average for at least 2 days. Every once in a while these situations can last a week or longer.

[BerislavLopac]

> You need hydrocarbons

You mean nuclear power.

[Teknoman117]

Either hydrocarbons or nuclear if renewables aren't an option.

[djhaskin987]

If only nuclear energy weren't so unpopular. Certainly it's unpopular in the states, though I can't speak to the UK.

[sofixa]

The UK has a few nuclear projects in progress (mostly done by foreign companies, including the French state owned EDF and even a Chinese company at some point), and a domestic small modular reactor program in research.

There have been delays and budget overruns (nothing unexpected really) at Hinkley Point C (an EPR build by EDF; and where the cleanup and decomissioning costs are explicitly included in the overall costs of the project and the electricity price reflects that) and that had stirred some debate, but i don't think anyone is still complaining about it.